I moved to Singapore • Hacker News Board

Re: I moved to Singapore

#181

Post by drinian » Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 11:38 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #70

Race: Caucasian Maybe it's cultural bias, but I was really surprised they'd list something like that on an ID card!

Singapore's position on race is difficult to characterize. This is what I've heard:

Most Singaporeans live in government-owned housing blocks. The distribution of the races within each housing block is roughly the same as in Singapore as a whole. Within these blocks, you are only allowed to sell your apartment to another person of the same race as yourself.

Officially this is to promote "racial harmony." That's probably true. Unofficially, it seems clear that it's also a form of gerrymandering: the government assumes that the Chinese majority will always support the ruling party, and this system stops any district from gaining a Malay majority.

I've also been told that your second language in school (which is taught in English, a neutral language) is determined by your race: Mandarin for Chinese, Malay for Malaysians, and Tamil (!) for Indians.

I really love Singapore -- been there several times as a visitor, studied its governance, society (and its food stalls...) but I would be seriously pissed off if I were told that I had to do certain things because of my race.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#182

Post by bluedanieru » Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 11:43 PM UTC

astrec wrote: post #90

chad_oliver wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that in Australia, the constitution isn't as foundational as it is in the USA. Just because it's not in the constitution doesn't mean that it's not enshrined in the consciousness of the people. I come from New Zealand, and although there's a lot of rivalry between Australia and New Zealand, I nevertheless consider Australia to be a second home -- even though I've only been there twice.

Consciousness or not, it's not enshrined in law. What is enshrined in law, however, is that certain types of speech are a criminal offence. Further, there is no constitutional impediment to Parliament passing legislation which criminalises other forms of speech.

And the American Congress routinely ignores its constitution with the complicity of the Supreme Court. What's your point? Are you suggesting that a constitution is enough? It's matter of who gets elected too, you know.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#183

Post by bluedanieru » Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 11:49 PM UTC

sahillavingia wrote: post #23

kylec wrote: post #11

I'm surprised at his choice of location - Singapore is quite a nanny state, and the punishments are sometimes quite severe. "Singapore society is highly regulated through the criminalization of many activities which are considered as fairly harmless in other countries. These include failing to flush toilets after use, littering, jaywalking, the possession of pornography, and the sale of chewing gum." "Singapore has o…

There are pros and cons of living anywhere. Visit Singapore and you'll encounter some of the cleanest streets on the planet. I don't mind the "severe" punishments that come down on those that do things like litter, because I don't litter — all in all it doesn't change my behavior for the worse, and only improves the quality of life. And jaywalking is illegal in the US too. I'd love to answer any questions about Singa…

"I don't mind if X is illegal because I don't X."

"I don't mind if the state thinks I did X because I don't X."

There is a crucial difference between these two things and it's why any sane nation avoids applying draconian punishments for mundane offenses. Basically, the state realizes it could be wrong and hedges its bets. The Singapore state doesn't consider that, and it should give anyone living there or planning to go pause. Even if you don't care for the guilty, remember that no judicial system will always convict only the guilty.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#184

Post by bluedanieru » Sun, Jun 05, 2011, 11:54 PM UTC

thomasgerbe wrote: post #171

Lucadg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years back I was at Singapore's airport and I saw, along many other signs forbidding most human activities one which still haunts me at night. There was this symbol of a person reading and the text was: no studying. Then one day while I was walking down Orchard road I saw a long line of people quieing on the street to get in...Sweansens (a chain crappy ice-cream store). That's when I decided Singapore was lost.…

A week ago, I was at SFO and saw the TSA body-scanning children and elderly people. Then one day I saw a long line of people on the street to get in... an Apple store. That's when I decided San Francisco was lost.

Yes, America is going the way of Singapore. I advise people who ask to avoid both.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#185

Post by kablamo » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 12:15 AM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #179

cletus wrote: post #122

I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive. There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there. I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chew…

It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any civilized nation the worst thin…

I'm not a fan of the death penalty. But to be afraid of dying in Singapore is silly. Singapore is probably the safest country on the planet. There is no crime. No natural disasters. A good, cheap medical system. A great transportation system. A booming economy. All things that make you safer and live longer.

I just moved to London from Singapore and I don't understand why westerners put up with such high levels of crime. Its awesome to be able to ride the train at night and walk through any park or dark street anywhere in a major city at 1am and feel completely 100% safe.

Westerners distrust government because government sucks in the West. They tax you at high rates and give you long lines and crappy service. In Singapore government works. It produces jobs, every government form is online and the rules are ALL practical and actually make sense (unlike the west). Policemen are polite and courteous. My Singaporian wife paid 5% in taxes last year btw.

And above all its safe to go for a run at night!

Re: I moved to Singapore

#186

Post by kokatoo » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 12:39 AM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #179

cletus wrote: post #122

I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive. There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there. I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chew…

It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any civilized nation the worst thin…

I'm surprised how misinformed you are. There's no law about flushing the toilet and even if there is, it's not easily enforceable. But then again there's fine for littering, but then again it's hardly enforceable. No one is watching your back to make sure you throw your trash in the right place. You are just expected to be civil enough to do it. And btw, possessing drugs does not give you the death penalty. Smuggling does. Possessing drugs give you a relatively minor sentence like a few months to a few years in jail.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#187

Post by bluedanieru » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 12:41 AM UTC

kablamo wrote: post #185

bluedanieru wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any civilized nation the worst thin…

I'm not a fan of the death penalty. But to be afraid of dying in Singapore is silly. Singapore is probably the safest country on the planet. There is no crime. No natural disasters. A good, cheap medical system. A great transportation system. A booming economy. All things that make you safer and live longer. I just moved to London from Singapore and I don't understand why westerners put up with such high levels of cr…

I get all that in Japan without the jackboots. Japan has its own set of problems with regard to justice but nothing like Singapore. I do agree with you about London though. I was asked if I wanted to relocate there for work and gave an immediate 'no'. (I might have taken longer but I had just seen Harry Browne a few days before.)

Point being, what you say about safety is true, but I don't think much of the credit belongs to Singapore's government and legal system. Perhaps rather to a culture with a stronger sense of civic responsibility. I don't agree that you can't have both security and freedom and think any proposal to trade one for the other is foolish.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#188

Post by bluedanieru » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 12:46 AM UTC

kokatoo wrote: post #186

bluedanieru wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any civilized nation the worst thin…

I'm surprised how misinformed you are. There's no law about flushing the toilet and even if there is, it's not easily enforceable. But then again there's fine for littering, but then again it's hardly enforceable. No one is watching your back to make sure you throw your trash in the right place. You are just expected to be civil enough to do it. And btw, possessing drugs does not give you the death penalty. Smuggling…

You shouldn't start a reply like that when you're wrong on both counts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Singapore...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Singapore#Criminal_law

Re: I moved to Singapore

#189

Post by kokatoo » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 12:47 AM UTC

miked wrote: post #160

zizee wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friends Dad, travelling in the US, had the police order him off the street at gun point because he was jaywalking. I'm sure that is not the typical experience of most people, but I thought it an interesting anecdote after seeing the parents post...

>> had the police order him off the street at gun point because he was jaywalking. I simply don't believe your friend's dad was telling the truth. There are plenty of bad cops in the US, but drawing a gun on someone because they were jaywalking? I call bullshit.

I was arrested, cuffed, and pinned down in Vancouver, Canada for jaywalking (in a small stretch of road in GasTown). And btw, you don't get arrested or fined in Singapore for jaywalking. Cuz there's tons of jaywalkers in Singapore. Many more than Vancouver and I have never seen anyone got arrested before or fined.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#190

Post by teyc » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 1:02 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #152

Daniel14 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live near Zurich but don't perceive the rules to be anywhere near as strict as you described, and would certainly not talk about "being told what to do" by the state. In Singapur, there are lots of laws unimaginable in Switzerland (for example, it's forbidden to smoke in public, you go to jail for speeding/driving while drunk, spitting or chewing gum, you'll t get killed for possessing drugs...). In Switzerland, wh…

Well, in all fairness, Switzerland is much like Monaco, Beverly Hills and certain Carribean islands in that its poverty is essentially exported. Switzerland makes it very difficult to become a citizen unless you're born to at least one Swiss parent or you marry a Swiss citizen (there are people whose families have been living in Switzerland since the 20s who can't become citizens). There are a large contingent of wor…

The chewing gum thing is a bit weird.

There was one incident when the entire MRT (subway) was delayed for a few hours because the doors jammed and wouldn't shut. Turned out to be a piece of gum stuck on the door.