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Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

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Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#61

Judging what is and is not misinformation must always be in the hands of the people. Never the hands of authorities whether those be government or corporate. Why must fight all censorship. Because once you allow "a thing" to be censored, it becomes possible to censor "any thing". Things in the past which were labeled misinformation and would have been suppressed for even longer (or forever) under current social attit…

It's so far been in the hands of the courts, and like you said, they don't determine what's free speech based on whether something makes us feel bad. Per bhupy, their specific criteria is whether the speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action". If the misinformation on certain media outlets is considered by the courts to have incited the insurre…

> If the misinformation on certain media outlets is considered by the courts to have incited the insurrection , then it may not be considered free speech.

The legal standard for "inciting or producing imminent lawless action" is given by Brandenburg v. Ohio. In that case, which upheld speech openly advocating for violence against specific groups to be protected speech. It overturned an Ohio law that had been directed against communists who "advocated the duty, necessity, or propriety of crime, sabotage, violence, or unlawful methods of terrorism as a means of accomplishing industrial or political reform." Brandenburg was a 9-0 Warren court decision.

Courts will not uphold anything that has been said about the election as outside the boundaries of free speech, under Brandenburg.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#62

There is no such demand in the PDF linked. EDIT: In case the title gets changed, it is currently "House Democrats Demand Cable Providers to Censor Misinformation [PDF]" EDIT 2: After all the downvotes, I looked again but still am not seeing it.

" 4. What steps did you take prior to, on, and following the November 3, 2020 elections and the January 6, 2021 attacks to monitor, respond to, and reduce the spread of disinformation, including encouragement or incitement of violence by channels your company disseminates to millions of Americans? Please describe each step that you took and when it was taken.

5. Have you taken any adverse actions against a channel, including Fox News, Newsmax, and OANN, for using your platform to disseminate disinformation related directly or indirectly to the November 3, 2020 elections, the January 6, 2021 Capitol insurrection, or COVID-19 misinformation? If yes, please describe each action, when it was taken, and the parties involved.

6. Have you ever taken any actions against a channel for using your platform to disseminate any disinformation? If yes, please describe each action and when it was taken.

7. Are you planning to continue carrying Fox News, Newsmax, and OANN on U-verse, DirecTV, and AT&T TV both now and beyond any contract renewal date? If so, why? "

Not seeing it? Really?

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#63
post #25

This title should be changed, it doesn't reflect the content of these letters. They do point in a concerning direction, but this is not a demand for censorship.

" 4. What steps did you take prior to, on, and following the November 3, 2020 elections and the January 6, 2021 attacks to monitor, respond to, and reduce the spread of disinformation, including encouragement or incitement of violence by channels your company disseminates to millions of Americans? Please describe each step that you took and when it was taken.

5. Have you taken any adverse actions against a channel, including Fox News, Newsmax, and OANN, for using your platform to disseminate disinformation related directly or indirectly to the November 3, 2020 elections, the January 6, 2021 Capitol insurrection, or COVID-19 misinformation? If yes, please describe each action, when it was taken, and the parties involved.

6. Have you ever taken any actions against a channel for using your platform to disseminate any disinformation? If yes, please describe each action and when it was taken.

7. Are you planning to continue carrying Fox News, Newsmax, and OANN on U-verse, DirecTV, and AT&T TV both now and beyond any contract renewal date? If so, why? "

Not a demand for censorship?

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's not the best, people are familiar with it. The replacement is certainly more accurate. In this case, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action?

> In this case, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action? We have several Supreme Court decisions that can help answer this question. First of all, misinformation was established to be protected speech in NYTimes vs Sullivan, where the SCOTUS unanimously found that the New York Times was within its rights to publish an adver…

We do, for individuals, in specific situations. Like I stated in my comment above, I'm not certain those would apply in this case.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#65
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Incitement" and "imminent lawless action" are extremely narrow compared to what people are talking about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio Even openly advocating violence is protected by the first amendment under the Supreme Court's Brandenburg decision.

They are narrowly interpreted as it relates to individuals, but I'm not sure that same interpretation would be applied to media outlets. In terms of liability, as a property owner I have a much lower standards for care, custody, and control of an empty piece of property I have with a no trespassing sign than a corporation has for a sports stadium they run. I'm not certain that the standards for free speech by an indi…

While the Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on incitement in the context of media outlets, it's clear from cases like New York Times v. Sullivan and Hustler Magazine v. Falwell that the Supreme Court is extremely protective of speech by media outlets.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#66
post #25

This title should be changed, it doesn't reflect the content of these letters. They do point in a concerning direction, but this is not a demand for censorship.

" 4. What steps did you take prior to, on, and following the November 3, 2020 elections and the January 6, 2021 attacks to monitor, respond to, and reduce the spread of disinformation, including encouragement or incitement of violence by channels your company disseminates to millions of Americans? Please describe each step that you took and when it was taken. 5. Have you taken any adverse actions against a channel, i…

>Not a demand for censorship?

No, those look like questions to me. A demand for censorship would be "stop carrying these channels." Such a demand may follow after these questions are answered, but do they not constitute a demand for censorship of themselves.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In this case, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action? We have several Supreme Court decisions that can help answer this question. First of all, misinformation was established to be protected speech in NYTimes vs Sullivan, where the SCOTUS unanimously found that the New York Times was within its rights to publish an adver…

We do, for individuals, in specific situations. Like I stated in my comment above, I'm not certain those would apply in this case.

The New York Times vs Sullivan precedent pretty specifically addressed that issue: organizations (like the NYT) are protected by the First Amendment.

Also, just taking a step back, the Constitution makes no mention of a difference between individuals and groups. If you and I were to group together to advocate for something, our rights to advocate for that thing don't magically disappear.

In fact, by this logic, we don't actually have a free press, because journalistic outlets aren't individuals, they are organizations that the Constitution doesn't protect.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#68
post #47
post #37

The letter complains about Fox and OANN's partisan and inflammatory rhetoric, with supporting citations to sources on the left who trade heavily in partisan and inflammatory rhetoric. Just three citations in you get to Karen Attiah, Washington Post's Global Opinions Editor: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/29/karen-attia... > “White women are lucky that we are just calling them ‘Karen’s,’ and not calling…

>I don't really care what inflammatory things people post in their free time. But make no mistake that there will be double standards in how these rules will be applied. This seems like a red herring though? These letters are talking about the statements that news sources make as official outlets, to which you're comparing statements an individual makes (presumably) on her own time. I don't deny that there's a potent…

Honestly, this isn't any more helpful than responding "citation needed" to someone asserting that man-made causes will accelerate climate change. The inevitability of the abuse of political power is not something that has to be debated over and over again in every thread.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#69
post #68
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't really care what inflammatory things people post in their free time. But make no mistake that there will be double standards in how these rules will be applied. This seems like a red herring though? These letters are talking about the statements that news sources make as official outlets, to which you're comparing statements an individual makes (presumably) on her own time. I don't deny that there's a potent…

Honestly, this isn't any more helpful than responding "citation needed" to someone asserting that man-made causes will accelerate climate change. The inevitability of the abuse of political power is not something that has to be debated over and over again in every thread.

>The inevitability of the abuse of political power is not something that has to be debated over and over again in every thread.

I don't contest this, what I contest is the idea that there is comparable misinformation on both sides. rayiner has since updated his post with some examples that he thinks constitute misinformation by news sources themselves, but before the only example given was the tweets from the Washington Times link.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#70
post #47
post #37

The letter complains about Fox and OANN's partisan and inflammatory rhetoric, with supporting citations to sources on the left who trade heavily in partisan and inflammatory rhetoric. Just three citations in you get to Karen Attiah, Washington Post's Global Opinions Editor: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/29/karen-attia... > “White women are lucky that we are just calling them ‘Karen’s,’ and not calling…

>I don't really care what inflammatory things people post in their free time. But make no mistake that there will be double standards in how these rules will be applied. This seems like a red herring though? These letters are talking about the statements that news sources make as official outlets, to which you're comparing statements an individual makes (presumably) on her own time. I don't deny that there's a potent…

I absolutely agree there is a distinction in general. However, I don't think that distinction applies to the Twitter posts of a blue-checkmark journalist. The news outlets themselves are heavily involved in Twitter, and Attiah prominently advertises her Washington Post affiliation on her Twitter account.

Her affiliation with a prominent media company is why she has a blue checkmark: https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twit...

> Notable Your account must represent or otherwise be associated with a prominently recognized individual or brand, in line with the notability criteria described below.

> News organizations and journalists: Any official accounts of qualifying news organizations, as well individual accounts of journalists employed by qualifying organizations may be verified, if the account is public (does not have protected Tweets) and refers directly to the name and official URL of the qualifying organization and otherwise meets the criteria laid out in this policy

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