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Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

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Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#51

Judging what is and is not misinformation must always be in the hands of the people. Never the hands of authorities whether those be government or corporate. Why must fight all censorship. Because once you allow "a thing" to be censored, it becomes possible to censor "any thing". Things in the past which were labeled misinformation and would have been suppressed for even longer (or forever) under current social attit…

It's so far been in the hands of the courts, and like you said, they don't determine what's free speech based on whether something makes us feel bad.

Per bhupy, their specific criteria is whether the speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".

If the misinformation on certain media outlets is considered by the courts to have incited the insurrection , then it may not be considered free speech.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#52
> Experts have noted that the right-wing media ecosystem is “much more susceptible...to disinformation, lies, and half-truths.”

Citation from the PDF: https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/o...

That book does not cite any evidence for that assertion.

Here's the relevant excerpt:

> IN THE PRECEDING three chapters we examined the propaganda feedback loop, how it forms, and how it facilitates disinformation and the manipulation of beliefs of a population. But our observations about the highly asymmetric nature of the American media environment, and the survey-based evidence we described in Chapter 2, which suggests that no more than 30 percent of the American population inhabits the insular, propaganda-rich right-wing media ecosystem, indicate that whatever one thinks of the result of the 2016 election, it could not have been purely the result of right-wing propaganda. Here, we identify two central attributes of mainstream media and professional journalism—balance and the scoop culture—that shaped election coverage, and in some cases made them particularly susceptible to being manipulated into spreading right-wing propaganda.

> As a violent mob was breaching the doors of the Capitol, Newsmax’s coverage called the scene a “sort of a romantic idea.”

That's not misinformation. That's just a dumb opinion.

> Fox News, meanwhile, has spent years spewing misinformation about American politics.

Citation from the PDF: https://www.vox.com/recode/22219026/fox-news-riot-capitol-ma...

That article is all about how Fox News has been talked for months after the election about how it "could have been stolen" (emphasis from Vox). It also speculates about Fox News's strategy going forward. That is not even close to "years spewing misinformation about American politics".

> A media watchdog found over 250 cases of COVID-19 misinformation on Fox News in just one five-day period

Citation from the PDF: https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/fox-news-p...

These sorts of counting articles always rub me the wrong way. They count multiple instances of the same misinformation and tend to play fast and loose with the definition of "misinformation" to get the count as high as possible. Of the few cases cited in the article, most of them are dumb opinions and baseless conjectures.

> and economists demonstrated that Fox News had a demonstrable impact on non-compliance with public health guidelines

Citation from the PDF: https://doi.org/10.3386/w27237

From the cited study:

> Meanwhile, Fox News maintained its stance against the lockdown and SD and, in April, a “slew of Fox News opinion hosts and anchors [were] pushing back on public health experts and urging President Donald Trump to abandon its social distancing policies and reopen the economy” (Relman, 2020). Therefore, our Fox News effects arise and persist throughout a period when Fox News repeatedly broadcast anti-SD content that was contrary to the recommendations of the White House.

The study itself attributes Fox News's influence on non-compliance to their disagreements regarding lockdown and social distancing policies. The study accuses Fox News of broadcasting misinformation by virtue of sharing disagreements with the recommendations of health experts.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#53
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, it could also be the modern day version of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, and I think it hinges on how people reacted to the misinformation. That legal argument has been overturned precisely because it has no real limiting principle: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

While it's not the best, people are familiar with it. The replacement is certainly more accurate. In this case, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action?

> In this case, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action?

We have several Supreme Court decisions that can help answer this question. First of all, misinformation was established to be protected speech in NYTimes vs Sullivan, where the SCOTUS unanimously found that the New York Times was within its rights to publish an advertisement containing factual inaccuracies[1].

Brandenburg v Ohio (also unanimous[2]) explicitly established the "imminent lawless action" test as overriding the "clear and present danger" test; which was further reinforced by Hess v Indiana in which the court found that Hess's words were protected by the First Amendment because his speech amounted to "nothing more than the advocacy of illegal action at some indefinite future time"; i.e. failing the "imminence" portion of the "imminent lawless action" test [3].

> While it's not the best, people are familiar with it. The replacement is certainly more accurate.

The entire point is that what people are familiar with is incorrect and should no longer be considered a valid argument. In fact, the irony of this logic is that one could argue that advocating for limiting speech by falsely citing an overturned precedent as currently relevant is itself misinformation that can be legally regulated even under the First Amendment; we would both agree that that is nonsense.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hess_v._Indiana

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#54

"How many of your subscribers tuned in to Fox News, Newsmax, and OANN on U-verse, DirecTV, and AT&T TV for each of the four weeks preceding the November 3, 2020 elections and the January 6, 2021 attacks on the Capitol? Please specify the number of subscribers that tuned in to each channel ." Does this strike anyone else as a nakedly partisan move?

I am surprised that they didn't ask for a list of the subscribers including SSN.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#55

Is anyone finding this terrifying? When did democrafts, the party I vote for, become the people calling for tight censorship in every sector? Weren't the last people to make this move (more more ineffectively, thankfully) the Christian right? Is there something we can do to stand up for speech?

I've noticed that there is a common belief amongst Democrats and Progressives that people are duped into holding conservative viewpoints because of Fox News. Whenever I have asked people on the left why they think Republicans and Conservatives believe what they believe, the conversation always includes references to Fox News and the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine. So in that sense I can understand why so many Democr…

I agree that many people think that, but it gets the chronology precisely backwards. CNN has been on the air since 1980. Fox News didn't even exist until 1996, and didn't become popular until 2000. Fox News is a response to media bias,[1] not the other way around.

[1] And by "bias" I don't necessarily mean open bias. CNN wasn't partisan in the 1990s like it is today. But it still provided news filtered through a liberal ideology. For example, 71% of republicans say religion "does more good than harm in American society" versus 44% of democrats: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/11/15/republicans.... If you limit the analysis to white Democrats (the people who run newsrooms) the disparity is even starker: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/23/religiously... ("Religiously, nonwhite Democrats are more similar to Republicans than to white Democrats").

Do you think that someone who believes religion is an negative force in society, maybe jokes about religious people to friends after work will report on COVID-related church closings the same way as someone who believes religious practice is important to societal health? Even if they are acting utterly in good faith, their ideology can't help but influence their choice of stories, the gloss they put on developments, etc.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be able to give specific examples of left-focused misinformation on the capitol riots, that is specific news articles from "trusted partisan" sources (CNN, etc) containing unsupported conspiracy theories?

The fire extinguisher attack turned out to be BS. https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/capitol-police-officers-...

Does that meet the standard for being an unverified conspiracy theory? It seems that the story came from a source they were keeping anonymous (fairly conventional in journalism, especially when reporting things in real time) and was promptly updated as more news came in.

It's worth noting that there is fairly extensive video of an unhelmeted officer getting hit in the head with a fire extinguisher thrown during a brawl. I don't know if that officer has been identified as Sicknick or not, but that particular event (an officer getting hit in the head with a fire extinguisher) did happen. Separately, we know Sicknick did physically engage with the rioters, as the official US Capitol Police statement cited in the article you linked said "Officer Brian D. Sicknick passed away due to injuries sustained while on-duty."

So, _a_ fire extinguisher attack did happen (among many other attacks on officers during the riot). An officer did die as a result of injuries sustained during the riot. An anonymous source linked those two events, a link which now appears to have been incorrect. News sites which covered the events in question have effectively released retractions and calls to wait for more evidence.

What more would you want them to do? They can only report on the facts as known at the time, and release updates if those later change. Both of those things were done.

This is an entirely different situation from Fox and OANN alleging massive conspiracies and voter fraud and continuing to hold that position for political reasons despite a lack of evidence.

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#58
post #15

Is anyone else confused at how this is legal? I have no expertise in law, but my understanding is that the Supreme Court has agreed with the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Alabama that. > Racial discrimination in state-operated schools is barred by the Constitution and "[i]t is also axiomatic that a state may not induce, encourage or promote private persons to accomplish what it is constitutionally fo…

Yes, Greenwald pointed out the same thing in a recent article: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/congress-escalates-pressure... Edit: Another article just went up about exactly this. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/house-democrats-targeting-r...

Yes that's were I originally saw the reference

Re: Letters from House members to cable providers [pdf]

#60
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's not the best, people are familiar with it. The replacement is certainly more accurate. In this case, is the misinformation present directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action?

"Incitement" and "imminent lawless action" are extremely narrow compared to what people are talking about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio Even openly advocating violence is protected by the first amendment under the Supreme Court's Brandenburg decision.

They are narrowly interpreted as it relates to individuals, but I'm not sure that same interpretation would be applied to media outlets.

In terms of liability, as a property owner I have a much lower standards for care, custody, and control of an empty piece of property I have with a no trespassing sign than a corporation has for a sports stadium they run. I'm not certain that the standards for free speech by an individual in a single instance would be the same as the standards for a large media corporation across multiple instances.

How narrowly the court interprets "incitement" and "imminent lawless action" may be a function of the entity making them. An individual who is making political speech could say something that is considered protected, while a large corporation saying the same thing repeatedly, in a different context, may not be protected in the same way.

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