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Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

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Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#621

Post by MrMan »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #449
iso8859-1 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology doesn't imply a good civil society (where you can, on average, trust people. Aka "social capital"). But does technology imply social capital? I don't think so. So if you set up the dichotomy, and had to choose, I'd choose "social capital" every time. I know, you didn't use this phrasing. But when I read "allegiance to your tribe", what does that even mean? If you're American and you support your troops, is…

Technology removes the need for middlemen, and hence any trust needed for the middlemen. Allegiance to the tribe means following the customs/social ordering/rules of the tribe. For example, how well would a gay/non religious/etc person fare in tribes that don't believe in civil liberties?

This statement about technology removing middlemen is not true it can be disproven with some handful of examples.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#622

Post by MrMan »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #425
duckfang wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardest pill to swallow is that we already had a very low cost of moving money around between hostile nation-states. And it's been around since the 8th century - read 700ACE-800ACE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala Its money dealer to money dealer, and the money dealers keep scrips. Average fees are from 0.2% to 0.5% . It's definitely un-sexy since its not technology based. No chains of blocks or programmers…

Cryptocurrencies can take the role of a settlement network between the money dealers. This allows money dealers who either don't fully trust each other, or simply need to settle debt internationally because the transaction flow is asymmetric, to make these transactions. It also allows for a new kind of system where the money dealers act as access points to the network, and customers trust their local money dealer, bu…

FX dealers I have dealt with definitely want to know who they are trading with. The information is extremely useful. It's not better for them not to know. If you lose trust in a counterparty, there is a reason.

Exchanges all over the world have membership comprised of people who voluntarily group together to create and enforce trust. Using a different denominator for transactions wont take away the forces that cause this state of affairs.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#623

Post by shuckles »

bookmarkable wrote: post #584
shuckles wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bloomberg and Wired went online 4 years after the invention of the World Wide Web. In the first ten years, Amazon, eBay, Google, and PayPal were all founded. Technology adoption curves have only gotten steeper since then (e.g. iPhone/Android was basically the dominant consumer computing platform 10 years after its introduction).

You are comparing touchscreen mobile phones with a technology delving into what both gold / hard value stores AND cash do for society. That is not a typical technology adoption cycle. I’m not an extremist to say Bitcoin will eat the world or even replace any existing system entirely, but I still disagree with those that say it has no utility beyond get rich quick scheme. Referencing Wired as the killer app of the ear…

M-Pesa was used by over 90% of Kenyan households in about 2 years after its launch. I could go on.

Mobile computing has changed the entire world; it’s not plainly obvious that cryptocurrency would change it even more or is substantially more difficult to execute on.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#624

Post by aabbcc1241 »

insomniacity wrote: post #522
aabbcc1241 wrote: post #122

Compared with Ethereum, "the global computer", zeronet is free as it doesn't require transaction fee to function.

ZeroNet is about storage and distribution, not computation or a ledger.

I would argue ethereum (network) is about distribution as well. As the computation is done repeatedly by each machine locally.

The advantage of ethereum over zeronet is it support more flexible verification (via smart contract) while zeronet mainly verify by signature without customizable logics.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#625

Post by loceng »

louwrentius wrote: post #564
loceng wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be existing tools that are foolproof that can provide an immutable ledger, I'm unsure if that's fully possible otherwise, however having all transactions and changes to said system being public would prevent things like nations printing money without reporting it accurately - helping to make sure everyone's playing a fair game; using such a ledger would have to be voluntary, with nations who are aligned wit…

You are trying to solve a problem that is a feature. Printing money is a feature to keep our societies afloat during dark times. It is one of the tools to keep a currency stable. Not to say that there aren't serious problems in the fin-tech world, but immutable ledgers and rigid currencies aren't going to solve those. The key problem - and your post is yet another example - is that you can't replace trust with an imm…

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

"... is that you can't replace trust with an immutable ledger."

"The real problem - in my view - is that people don't understand the foundations of a society anymore, how to live together."

I agree with you 100%. Also, I never said we should prevent printing money with blockchain - the purpose and value is so that if a nation does print money, they're open and honest about it. It would be their own democratic decision to do so, likewise in the blockchain system I envision - it would be that same democratic process, decision making, that they would want to join such a managed system that other trusted-democratic nations are part of - where they believe in the transparency of it all.

And I never even alluded to replacing trust with an immutable ledger, just that an immutable ledger becomes a witness that each nation would decide to be witnessed by by their peers.

All of my projects are health-wellness focused, in part to help people develop their self-awareness, to gain and maintain their health, and in part that is healing through community - building real community.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#626

Post by DominikD »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #170
DominikD wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point, which was "there's nothing for the masses". Interesting technology is not a selling point for the masses. Strong fundamentals are not a selling point for the masses. Whether there's a get rich quick crowd around crypto (or not) is not a selling point for the masses.

The haber process feeds 4 billion people, and most don't know it exists. Not everything needs to be sold and popularised to the masses.

Again, that's not the point. The point isn't that something has to be for the masses but that there's nothing in crypto that's appealing for the masses. ASN.1 is used by everyone but that doesn't mean it's appealing to the masses.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#627

Post by gh55 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #619
gh55 wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total being used as collateral can be seen here https://defipulse.com/defi-lending , and https://nexostatistics.com/loans/ . A small proportion of market cap, and these loans have low loan to value ratios - typically 20%; no-one wants to risk liquidation.

But then we are back at the original problem, which is that I have no ability to repossess a nontrivial amount of property to handle a default and this system is explicitly constructed to be outside of the bounds of things like credit scores.

Regarding the auto financing. Traditional lenders will typically have no ability to repossess secured assets themselves, they will send out a colourful letter and if that doesn't work, sell the debt to a collection agent. DeFi in the form currently available doesn't need a credit score as it is secured against collateral, but a credit score would likely be needed in this case. New cars sold in the EU are likely trivial to repossess; I believe they have built in location trackers.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#628

Post by gh55 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #528
gh55 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose, with software eating the world, I want to believe we will collectively own and operate that software, rather than a particular company, that it will be open source, and if those who own it charge too much someone will fork it and outcompete them.

That might be nice, but it isn't a feature. Vanishingly few people consider "the product is collectively owned and open source" to be a feature that they are willing to prioritize over other things. As such, it is hard to support any very large endeavor just off this thing. There is a reason why Blender shows up over and over and over and over again on "lists of awesome FLOSS apps" and that is because it has damn goo…

I think you're conflating two things. Collectively owned, as in how large companies are owned by their shareholders. Decentralized, as in instead of a company, its a piece of software, that we are collectively funding the development of and profiting from. As more business can be done with software, with less people, I see this as a way for us to own that software, and contribute to it. If some group of owners charge too much, it can be forked, similar to how a business can be undercut by a competitor if they charge too much.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#629

Post by Synaesthesia »

4b11b4 wrote: post #260
Synaesthesia wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who got the initial bitcoin and held onto it still have the majority of it. I don't see that changing. It's not healthy for the monetary system having most people try to just get rich by holding onto the currency.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but this isn't the first time. The people who made the first money held onto that, and then used it to control their environment and make more money. When the British queen invested in that first wooden ship to bring back riches, she made a ton of money. Then she started the East India Company. I don't see those first BTC holders as worse?

The East India company which ruined Bengal, enriched a few English elite. Yeah sounds about right.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#630

Post by gh55 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #529
gh55 wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment DeFi loans are fully collateralized, with the loan to value ratio affecting the interest rate you pay. If your collateral drops in value you have to recollateralize the loan, or are liquidated.

I don't understand. Why would I need a loan for $X if I already have $X to put up as collateral?

Incidentally, it is my hope that once laws change the collateral can be any type of asset, not only digital assets. The collateral could also be some sort of tokenized reputation issued by a collective, whom have decided you are worthy of credit. Perhaps they are affiliated with your employer or have enough knowledge to assess the stability of your income due to their knowledge of your skillset. The lenders would then be paid by them, by proxy - allowing those capable of assessing risk, and those with sufficient funds to lend, to be distinct. Incidentally, this is all bleeding edge, let's see what is actually built and what works with all this new possibility.
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