Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#441

Post by PretzelPirate » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:36 PM UTC

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #375

The Hacker News community has long been anti-crypto, and as someone deeply involved in the space, these long threads of complaints and diatribes are difficult to handle. Everyone is missing so much context. Ethereum gas prices are astronomical because there's unprecedented demand to use the network: NFT art and collectibles are exploding (NBA TopShot, Foundation, SuperRare, Rarible, OpenSea, etc.) at the same time De…

I kind of agree with what I interpret the article as saying - It was fun to work in the Ethereum space when people where there to have fun and there wasn’t so much money involved.

It’s certainly not fun to contribute to Geth nowadays when every bug can have huge consequences, and the community constantly demands more performance so they can have lower costs. Peter was very clear about the burnout this causes.

You can simplify that to - It’s fun to work on things when there isn’t pressure to work on them.

I’ve run into this multiple times in my life, including in the blockchain space, but it isn’t really anything specific to Ethereum. Though I do feel like the author has a limited view and is attributing this to be something Ethereum specific.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#442

Post by parliament32 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

drcode wrote: post #432

parliament32 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Is there anything actually wrong with PoW? It's fun to say it's "wasted" electricity, but we "waste" more power, resources, and man-hours in other trivialities (eg. video games) without really caring. - Read the whitepaper of whichever crypto you're asking about. The answer is "it depends", because each one exists to fill a different niche. - Nobody really cares about Tether, so probably nothing.

A failure of tether would certainly cause a ton of market volatility, but there's enough tether substitutes for the markets to adjust pretty quickly. Sure, the failure might freeze a lot of funds and depress market caps a bit in the process.

Personally I doubt it. Look at the market volumes -- everyone who wants to trade shitcoins just does it with BTC pairs, and most of the big boy exchanges support USD-BTC directly.. tether was a good idea when exchanges didn't want to mess with USD but that's not really the case anymore.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#443

Post by bookmarkable » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #56

Building something useful on something that is primarily used as highly volatile financial speculation instrument always rubbed me the wrong way. The whole crypto scene is just about making quick dough with a technology, that for some reason remains hyped through and wrapped in mysticism. Face it, there is no sexy killer app for the masses. Wait. There is one: Crypto trading to... make quick dough. And the cryptonerd…

This is really short sighted thinking. The web had no "killer app" in the first 10+ years. It was obscure technology with thousands of naysayers laughing at us "web nerds" because we thought it would change everything.

Cryptocurrency is very young. While its hard to say if BTC or ETH or something yet to be invented will be part of the digital money future, it is absolutely reasonable to expect this technology will have a role in the world. Of course people will make and lose "quick dough" but that's like saying the web failed because some idiot made or lost money on Pets.com or AOL stock.

Trade volume just means that the idea is in circulation, people of many walks of life are seeing what is there. Feel free to ignore those people, but to write off the entire concept as "about making quick dough" is asinine.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#444

Post by parliament32 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #436

parliament32 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Is there anything actually wrong with PoW? It's fun to say it's "wasted" electricity, but we "waste" more power, resources, and man-hours in other trivialities (eg. video games) without really caring. - Read the whitepaper of whichever crypto you're asking about. The answer is "it depends", because each one exists to fill a different niche. - Nobody really cares about Tether, so probably nothing.

If actual, real consumers and professionals can't buy gear because it's being hoarded by miners, yeah, that's pretty wasteful (as in, a thing that consumes vast resources without benefiting very many people).

Heaven forbid the manufacturers actually, you know, increase production to meet the demand for their hardware.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#445

Post by als0 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #436

parliament32 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Is there anything actually wrong with PoW? It's fun to say it's "wasted" electricity, but we "waste" more power, resources, and man-hours in other trivialities (eg. video games) without really caring. - Read the whitepaper of whichever crypto you're asking about. The answer is "it depends", because each one exists to fill a different niche. - Nobody really cares about Tether, so probably nothing.

If actual, real consumers and professionals can't buy gear because it's being hoarded by miners, yeah, that's pretty wasteful (as in, a thing that consumes vast resources without benefiting very many people).

Agreed. ASICs have really destroyed the spirit of mining, and may hint that the Bitcoin style PoW algorithms are in fact not a senible type of proof.

Memory-hard PoW algorithms, rather than computational ones, might be one way to reduce the amount of energy. Memory is expensive regardless of whether you make ASICs or use regular PCs.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#446

Post by lasc4r » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

rawtxapp wrote: post #410

skybrian wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does borrowing work in an automated, trustless environment? Doesn’t someone have to decide whether you’re likely to pay back the loan with money you haven’t earned yet?

It's over-collaterized, so you put more crypto than the loan value. You might say "why the hell would I do that?", in order of importance: 1) you hold on to your asset's appreciation, 2) access the liquidity, 3) avoid capital gains tax.

So the killer use case is a scheme to avoid capital gains taxes? Sounds about right.

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#447

Post by labrador » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

jasonrodrigues wrote: post #101

labrador wrote: post #82

Most everything fun thing that I used to do is no longer fun anymore.

And that is?

I don't do the Macarena when the song comes on

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#448

Post by chowells » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #404

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #375

The Hacker News community has long been anti-crypto, and as someone deeply involved in the space, these long threads of complaints and diatribes are difficult to handle. Everyone is missing so much context. Ethereum gas prices are astronomical because there's unprecedented demand to use the network: NFT art and collectibles are exploding (NBA TopShot, Foundation, SuperRare, Rarible, OpenSea, etc.) at the same time De…

I'm going to agree https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=599852 The only surprise is that HN is still a terrible place to discuss crypto. Not many posters or commenters seem to have much knowledge, which is strange for HN

Maybe somehow they simultaneously have plenty of knowledge and don't agree with you.

So in the spirit of education - what amazing things are there about ethereum or Bitcoin that will change my mind about their intrinsic value that I don't already know? (My current opinion is that the intrinsic value of PoW systems is negative due to low actual utility and very high cost.)

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#449

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

iso8859-1 wrote: post #353

lotsofpulp wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And the only reason why it's not more massively used is because of the US's adherence that it's "terrorism". I don’t think so. A system with clear record keeping, auditable by third parties, and subject to the judiciary is far better than below: > Trust and extensive use of connections are the components that distinguish it from other remittance systems. Hawaladar networks are often based on membership in the same f…

Technology doesn't imply a good civil society (where you can, on average, trust people. Aka "social capital"). But does technology imply social capital? I don't think so. So if you set up the dichotomy, and had to choose, I'd choose "social capital" every time. I know, you didn't use this phrasing. But when I read "allegiance to your tribe", what does that even mean? If you're American and you support your troops, is…

Technology removes the need for middlemen, and hence any trust needed for the middlemen.

Allegiance to the tribe means following the customs/social ordering/rules of the tribe. For example, how well would a gay/non religious/etc person fare in tribes that don't believe in civil liberties?

Re: Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore

#450

Post by nostrademons » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

jordanmarshall wrote: post #439

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #375

The Hacker News community has long been anti-crypto, and as someone deeply involved in the space, these long threads of complaints and diatribes are difficult to handle. Everyone is missing so much context. Ethereum gas prices are astronomical because there's unprecedented demand to use the network: NFT art and collectibles are exploding (NBA TopShot, Foundation, SuperRare, Rarible, OpenSea, etc.) at the same time De…

Help me understand the appeal of NFT art. I love digital art, but I don't see the appeal of spending money to get the token certifying you as the owner. The image/work is still out there and can be viewed/downloaded by other people. You don't even control it, unless the artist agrees to send you all of the files and delete them on his or her system. Your name doesn't even appear next to the piece when people look at…

Why do people buy originals rather than prints, often at a 10x markup? Why do they get certified dog breeds rather than mutts from the animal shelter? Why do people pay for skins and unique items in video games? Why will people spend $300K on a college degree when the coursework itself is available for free on the Internet?

A lot of times, people just want a limited-supply token from a third-party saying "yes, I paid for this, and that distinguishes me from the hoi polloi who got it for free".