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Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

bbc.com

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Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#211

Post by La1n »

duxup wrote: post #106
Context_free wrote: post #102

I can go to another part of the BBC web site and read about the British killed in the past 6, 7, and 8 years while going halfway across the world to kill Muslims in the country bordering west Xinjiang. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-30224841 Meanwhile when China deals with Muslim terrorism within its own borders there's calls of "genocide" (I suppose something akin to England's genocide in Bengal during Wor…

>China deals with Muslim terrorism The scale seems dramatically wide and largely ethic focused compared to a military conflict. But what I really wonder if you compare it to "bombing a wedding"... are you ok with that?

Dramatically wide compared to invading a whole country, occupying it for decades, killing tens of thousands of civilians?

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#212

Post by aaron695 »

hh3k0 wrote: post #190
aaron695 wrote: post #153

[flagged]

> No, China is not committing genocide. Yes, they are: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_stages_of_genocide > Why do we have to jump to genocide. Because that is the term for what they do. The refusal to call it genocide is like putting lipstick on a pig; in the end it's still a pig.

You are denying Pol Pot killing 1 million Cambodians was "genocide".

You are correct, it wasn't a legal pig. That is why the trials had to loophole it around killing the Cham and other minorities. Points for being technical.

As I said even by your legal definition the Chinese are not committing genocide against the Uyghurs.

The report FYI, which I'm not clear why we care what the lawyers at Essex Court Chambers reading news article on the BBC and NYT think on the matter. Are they even legal experts in genocide?

https://14ee1ae3-14ee-4012-91cf-a6a3b7dc3d8b.usrfiles.com/ug...

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#213

Post by zed88 »

seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

Agree. I got lots of Chinese friends, relatives and in-laws and not one of them are willing to openly criticise CCP about it. On the contrary, they are more on the defensive. Tells you the level of brainwashing going on.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#214

Post by aembleton »

Fricken wrote: post #209
hh3k0 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, China is not committing genocide. Yes, they are: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_stages_of_genocide > Why do we have to jump to genocide. Because that is the term for what they do. The refusal to call it genocide is like putting lipstick on a pig; in the end it's still a pig.

Interesting. According to that America is at stage 8 of 10 in it's Genocide of China.

Has America planned the mass killing of Chinese citizens?

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#215

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

yange wrote: post #174
_coveredInBees wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what are your thoughts on first-hand survivor accounts such as these? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/china-uses-rape-t... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/uighur-xinjian... These are real people. They aren't Western "plants", and it would be a pretty big conspiracy for them to all coordinate and "lie" about the things they detail…

Like a normal person, I'm against any inhumane treatment in any form against innocent people. These personal stories from these victims are most likely true. I feel sad and angry about what happened to them and would like to see changes. You know, even average schools in China looks more like a prison than actual prisons in the west. (Which remind me of this: https://www.schoolprison.com/ ) You will often find 8-12 s…

> the Xinjiang situation was mostly a response to the non-stopping terror attacks in the region for the last couple of decades

The Chinese crackdown on Xinjiang goes back well beyond the terror attacks. There used to be a secular, non-violent Uighur movement for their rights, including Uighur communists who simply wanted the right to use their own language at all times and not Chinese, like the laws ostensibly allow. However, in the 1980s and 1990s the Beijing regime imprisoned many of those activists or sent them into exile. At the same time, Han settlers were entering the area even though it was clear that this would change the region’s demographics.

Once the secular and non-violent activism was shut down, there arose out of desperation new trends that were violent and/or Islamist. But that doesn’t mean the CCP’s policy of Uighur assimilation and Han settlement didn’t come first.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#216

Post by zecg »

ajay-b wrote: post #148

It’s interesting to read the pro Chinese propaganda on HN. It’s too bad we can’t see the region from where those comments are coming from. It saddens me that people are forced to stand up for a regime that massacres and enslaves its own people.

This one is from Croatia, I can't trust any airquoted credible cases from western media on China, I've seen no evidence thus far and too much of this: https://i.redd.it/4ugpt0499ri61.jpg

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#217

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #125
seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

An older family member grew up in WW2 Europe under German occupation. I asked them about general everyday life during the war and the holocaust. Besides getting bombed on en route to school, it "wasn't that bad". I don't know if it's justification or stockholm syndrome. Part of me speculates people in these situations suspend their reality as a survival mechanism.

This is the key observation of Imre Kertész's book Sorstalanság about his surviving Auschwitz and Buchenwald as a deported Hungarian Jew. He is frustrated by people asking him postwar about how terrible the camps were. His thinking sort of goes like this: the human spirit is strong and can survive anything an oppressor throws at it, but to ask about the horrors of the death camps is to suggest that they were capable of breaking one’s spirit.

In the end (I don’t know if this counts as a spoiler or not) Kertész even admits to feeling nostalgia for some of the moments in the camps.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#218

Post by Fricken »

aembleton wrote: post #214
Fricken wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. According to that America is at stage 8 of 10 in it's Genocide of China.

Has America planned the mass killing of Chinese citizens?

Yep

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/09/01/what...

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#219

Post by NicoJuicy »

yange wrote: post #139
seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

I'm Chinese. Many languages and expressions in this thread not only detests me but also represent the very opposite of western critical thinking. I appreciate the western style of logical thinking. You are being taught in schools how to tell the truth and bust lies, to criticize, to doubt, to ask questions no one dares to ask. You are taught definitions of fallacies, the art of debate, the wisdom of introspection. I…

I don't think most people consider the CCP the same as Chinese people. I surely don't.

That doesn't mean there isn't a strong correlation with the country and it's political leaders. In my opinion, a country may be judged by it's leaders.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#220

Post by koonsolo »

zed88 wrote: post #213
seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

Agree. I got lots of Chinese friends, relatives and in-laws and not one of them are willing to openly criticise CCP about it. On the contrary, they are more on the defensive. Tells you the level of brainwashing going on.

Either that or fear.
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