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Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

ercot.com

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Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#261

Post by roenxi »

Retric wrote: post #211
roenxi wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I've got a prepper bent and am OK with losing power for a few days in a 1:100 year event? Can I still get cheap, slightly unreliable power? Not to make light of the events in Texas - it sounds scary and they need to be prepared for next time. But the answer isn't automatically "they should have had a gold plated the grid!". The answer might be "they should be have been prepared for a few days without power in…

Your personal value for reliability isn’t relevant. The electric grid is providing power for hospitals with back up generators and office building which don’t. The value of each of those 9’s to society and the overall economy is what matters and business being forced to shut down lose vastly more money than it would cost to prevent this issue. The market based solution is to add a very large fine for blackouts on a p…

They are relevant. The electrical utilities could load-shed based on priority, so that places that need highly reliable power pay more and get special guarantees. Technically infeasible on a house-by-house basis, but they could do it for hospitals and such. They probably already do.

Your solution will cause power prices to go up. I'm sure a lot of consumers would be happy with that trade, but why should the ones who are unhappy with it be dragged along for the ride? There is no need to force the grid to provide reliable power to people who won't pay for it.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#262

Post by ceejayoz »

0xBDB wrote: post #252
smaddox wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what I've read, my understanding is that the separate Texas grid and ERCOT exist because Texas politicians wanted (and still want) to avoid federal regulation. The parts of Texas that were not on the separate Texas grid, i.e. El Paso didn't lose power. Are you saying that the rest of the US does not have a power market with appropriate regulations? Because as far as I can tell, this crises could have been co…

As far as I can make out, this narrative is simply not true, at least not with regard to power generation. Texas is subject to the same NERC regulations as the rest of the U.S. and Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Reliability_Entity

That they are subject to some regulations doesn't mean they're subject to all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/21/us/texas-electricity-erco...

> One example of how Texas has gone it alone is its refusal to enforce a “reserve margin” of extra power available above expected demand, unlike all other power systems around North America. With no mandate, there is little incentive to invest in precautions for events, such as a Southern snowstorm, that are rare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deregulation_of_the_Texas_elec...

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#263

Post by scsilver »

mrDmrTmrJ wrote: post #54
Osiris wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the market solves all problems why would the government even need to mandate winterization? Wouldn't smart businesses have done the risk analysis and done the work? Maybe the problem here is that loss of electrical power has a significant external cost that isn't absorbed by the utilities. In other words, the cost of winterization was more than the cost to fix the damage to their equipment but doesn't take into ac…

Strongly agree. Free markets often fail to adopt low cost protections to tail events. E.g. the free market didn't get us 100% of new cars having seatbelts and airbags, government requirements did. And those standards were fought by the car manufacturers. My point is we need regulations to mandate our energy system to be resilient to outlier events (heat/cold/flooding/high wind etc.) and that's a government function s…

If the externalities are on the national level, and the fed was seeking to regulate and own the responsibility, whole texas sued to foist them off, who has responsibility for the externalities?

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#264

Post by monadic5 »

refurb wrote: post #138
monadic5 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany isn't an international embarrassment at the moment.

International embarrassment? Didn’t Europe have a heat wave 5-10 years ago where tens of thousands died? I’d be careful throwing stones about extreme weather if I lived in a glasshouse too.

All I can state confidently is my own embarrassment at being associated with this country at all.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#265

Post by 0xBDB »

ceejayoz wrote: post #262
0xBDB wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can make out, this narrative is simply not true, at least not with regard to power generation. Texas is subject to the same NERC regulations as the rest of the U.S. and Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Reliability_Entity

That they are subject to some regulations doesn't mean they're subject to all. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/21/us/texas-electricity-erco... > One example of how Texas has gone it alone is its refusal to enforce a “reserve margin” of extra power available above expected demand, unlike all other power systems around North America. With no mandate, there is little incentive to invest in precautions for events, such a…

This makes sense, though I'm still not sure I understand exactly how it works. Thanks!

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#266

Post by spacemanmatt »

mrDmrTmrJ wrote: post #18
spacemanmatt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that is an accurate description of disincentivizing oversupply. I hate ERCOT.

Why do you hate ERCOT? I ask because I broadly understand ERCOT to have delivered the lowest prices and the highest reliability over the last decade. A far better outcome than PJM or CALISO. Last weeks failure was because the natural gas pipeline infrastructure isn't winterized - a separate issue from the structure of the electricity market. What leads you to a different opinion?

ERCOT is just part of the GOP-designed grid that has refused to weatherize, even after multiple "100-year events" that happened inside 15-20 years. Now we're burying Texans because a few officials think this is what freedom looks like.

Did were those ERCOT's power plants or ERCOT's companies or was it even ERCOT's purview to tell them to weatherize? Of course not. Does ERCOT serve the same boss as Republicans and energy companies? Absolutely.

I hope that better explains why I hate ERCOT, lest you think everyone who has an opinion different than yours is a fool. I am used to that. Most people have no idea how little Texans care for GOP go-it-alone politics.

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