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YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

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Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#191

Post by sago »

Fogest wrote: post #154
sago wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disagreeing with this thread. So I guess prepping for the down votes. > it trivializes all this historic pain to some inane game of word association I think addressing one issue does not 'trivialise' everything else. It can be horribly overstated but changing small fry can help provide momentum to change something more significant. > It's complete bullshit, It is obviously associating racism with something not in…

> It is obviously associating racism with something not intentionally racist. But does it not strike to you at all problematic, at the moment, that 'black' is a synonym of 'bad' and 'white' of 'good'? Does it not occur to you that it might improve our language to change that? Honestly, lately I feel like the opposite is the case. Everywhere I go anywhere online all I see is white people being shit on. I see incredibl…

> all I see is white people being shit on

I figured that would be the feel of the objection.

Maybe I should be grateful as a white person that that's not the world I find myself in. Happy to pick my variable names.

I can't help but feel that the antagonism here is very similar to the antagonism I mentioned about Gendered language. The anger seemed mostly caused by being surprised by being asked to think about something.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#192

Post by abnry »

awillen wrote: post #148
dehrmann wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting this case aside because it's sloppy reporting based on what another classifier found, this is a hard problem. Youtube gets too many videos and comments for humans to manually review them. Flagging helps, and Google likely uses ML more complex than just text and classifier (who is commenting, is the post trending, patterns in comments, etc.) When things do reach manual review, remember that humans make mistake…

People forget that they get these free services for free, and a big portion of that is because ML tools are able to cheaply do a really hard job of moderating. You hear about things like this because they're so unusual, which is a testament to the amount of time they work correctly without being noticed. Granted, there have been some issues with people getting banned from Google services for what appear to be wrong r…

A YouTuber is a business partner. One that YouTube treats poorly.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#193

Post by rmrfrmrf »

phone8675309 wrote: post #147
dehrmann wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting this case aside because it's sloppy reporting based on what another classifier found, this is a hard problem. Youtube gets too many videos and comments for humans to manually review them. Flagging helps, and Google likely uses ML more complex than just text and classifier (who is commenting, is the post trending, patterns in comments, etc.) When things do reach manual review, remember that humans make mistake…

> When things do reach manual review I’ve yet to see a case of the hoi poloi get a manual review - you either are a well enough known YouTuber where they have humans dedicated to you, you know someone who works at YouTube and can intercede on your behalf, or you have to whip up a Twitter mob big enough that it hurts YouTube's image or stirs up people with contacts at YouTube. Even then, sometimes that doesn’t work -…

The press are the manual reviewers, and articles like these are merely examples of the escalation process.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#194

Post by constantine42 »

Lots of talk about false positives. As a human, when dealing with fuzzy logic, I like to focus on recognizing when something is wrong to reduce false positives.

Maybe Google should put more effort in training AIs to recognize when they don't know instead of shoehorning an answer.

An analogy is I would expect a non-stupid human who has never seen a screw before, but trained to work with hammering nails to quickly recognize something is wrong the first time they're presented with a screw and not attempt to hammer it flush.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#195

Post by m1gu3l »

Fogest wrote: post #154
sago wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm disagreeing with this thread. So I guess prepping for the down votes. > it trivializes all this historic pain to some inane game of word association I think addressing one issue does not 'trivialise' everything else. It can be horribly overstated but changing small fry can help provide momentum to change something more significant. > It's complete bullshit, It is obviously associating racism with something not in…

> It is obviously associating racism with something not intentionally racist. But does it not strike to you at all problematic, at the moment, that 'black' is a synonym of 'bad' and 'white' of 'good'? Does it not occur to you that it might improve our language to change that? Honestly, lately I feel like the opposite is the case. Everywhere I go anywhere online all I see is white people being shit on. I see incredibl…

List me some “racist things being said about white people” you have seen on the internet so we can all see...

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#196

Post by dehrmann »

phone8675309 wrote: post #147
dehrmann wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting this case aside because it's sloppy reporting based on what another classifier found, this is a hard problem. Youtube gets too many videos and comments for humans to manually review them. Flagging helps, and Google likely uses ML more complex than just text and classifier (who is commenting, is the post trending, patterns in comments, etc.) When things do reach manual review, remember that humans make mistake…

> When things do reach manual review I’ve yet to see a case of the hoi poloi get a manual review - you either are a well enough known YouTuber where they have humans dedicated to you, you know someone who works at YouTube and can intercede on your behalf, or you have to whip up a Twitter mob big enough that it hurts YouTube's image or stirs up people with contacts at YouTube. Even then, sometimes that doesn’t work -…

Be careful not to confuse manual review with an appeal. When I say "manual review," I mean the classifier isn't sure, so a human double checked, or it was sent to a human to validate the classifier. You're right--appeals are hard to get--but we have no idea how much Youtube manually reviews content.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#197

Post by ivanhoe »

awillen wrote: post #148
dehrmann wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting this case aside because it's sloppy reporting based on what another classifier found, this is a hard problem. Youtube gets too many videos and comments for humans to manually review them. Flagging helps, and Google likely uses ML more complex than just text and classifier (who is commenting, is the post trending, patterns in comments, etc.) When things do reach manual review, remember that humans make mistake…

People forget that they get these free services for free, and a big portion of that is because ML tools are able to cheaply do a really hard job of moderating. You hear about things like this because they're so unusual, which is a testament to the amount of time they work correctly without being noticed. Granted, there have been some issues with people getting banned from Google services for what appear to be wrong r…

Not entirely true. First the platform is free, but also is the content that people provide and without it Youtube wouldn't make sense - so it's not a free service, it's a partnership. Second, for many people YouTube is the primary source of income, and I'm sure there would be plenty of content authors who'd be glad to pay a service with human moderators rather than bots - GIVEN THAT they get to keep access to the same traffic that YouTube provides. That's the key thing, you can't just go somewhere else when all the users are on a few popular platforms. If it's not for that, many high-profile authors who get their videos demonetized on stupidities would have left YouTube long time ago - but they can't, big players keep them in a checkmate position due to the form of monopoly on viewers that they have.

And that means you can't just say "If you don't like it, leave, it's a free service", because it's not that simple, as leaving in reality means "give up on your business", and most of people just can't afford that. Youtube has them cornered and thus needs to be careful, since it's not a game, it affects people's lives. For many accidental blocking of channel can mean they'll be living in their cars until the Gods of Google show mercy and fix the error.... and if they do it, since sometimes you don't even get a meaningful reply on what happened, just a template message.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#198

Post by tptacek »

lwouis wrote: post #47
throwawayboise wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment has been moderated for racist language ("black boxes").

You kid but i've received 2 pull-requests on my open-source project, which only goal was to replace "Blacklist" with "Blocklist" in the app preferences. I don't receive many PRs. This is a real trend.

Just make a call. Is "blacklist" worth keeping? I've spent 25 years working in security, "blacklist" is a pretty core part of the lingo, and: fuck it; "blocklist" is just as good. But other people will answer for more-inclusive alternatives to "MITM", and I'm probably not going to change that.

At least 50% of the drama about these language shifts comes from people who can't handle making decisions that make people unhappy. Just put your big kid pants on, make a decision, and deal with the response, without hyperventilating about "cancellation".

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#199

Post by swiley »

andrewzah wrote: post #5

“ The researchers now suggest that social-media platforms should incorporate chess language in their algorithms to avoid future incidents like this.” Or maybe don’t automate banning YouTube channels via nebulous black boxes? Or can advertisers stop being afraid of anything and everything?

I hope they double down on instant AI driven bans and the platform dies. We have better alternatives based on activityoub.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#200

Post by ipiz0618 »

waterhouse wrote: post #30
haunter wrote: post #21

inb4 someone will suggest that FIDE should change the color names to be more inclusive + why does white have the first move advantage, why can't black be the first. Perfect breeding soil for just another day of pointless race drama on Twitter

You joke (I think), but given what happened to the "master" branch on GitHub, it seems likely that some people will try to push the point, and, if they make enough noise, it's likely that the organizations involved will eventually cave (not the chess grandmasters (!), but the administrator types). I googled a bit and turned up a couple of news articles: https://apnews.com/article/184386cc09be6c69535919402a13fa3f and…

A quick search shows it has already happened.

https://twitter.com/magnuscarlsen/status/1108662247860199424

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