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YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

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Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#181

Post by ourmandave »

cambalache wrote: post #143
impendia wrote: post #13

Incidentally, if you like chess the channel is outstanding. (And back online now.) https://www.youtube.com/user/AGADMATOR I enjoy watching on my lunch breaks. Great breakdowns of games between top players past and present.

Agadmator is a mediocre player (as in no titled) and his analysis are pretty simplistic but he has created a good community of kids around his channel and he is a nice fellow. For actual analysis of quality you could check out the Chess24 channel where you have guys like Peter Svidler and other GMs analyzing games. The Spanish version is great too, you can find there all the top Spanish speaking players (Dominguez, V…

I'm an unrated "kid" and subscribe to Agadmator channel.

That happened a while ago and was practically a none event.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#182

Post by zests »

cambalache wrote: post #143
impendia wrote: post #13

Incidentally, if you like chess the channel is outstanding. (And back online now.) https://www.youtube.com/user/AGADMATOR I enjoy watching on my lunch breaks. Great breakdowns of games between top players past and present.

Agadmator is a mediocre player (as in no titled) and his analysis are pretty simplistic but he has created a good community of kids around his channel and he is a nice fellow. For actual analysis of quality you could check out the Chess24 channel where you have guys like Peter Svidler and other GMs analyzing games. The Spanish version is great too, you can find there all the top Spanish speaking players (Dominguez, V…

Chess24 has the highest level of commentary by far but chess.com can come close. Also, Peter Svidler is on the roof.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#183

Post by bryan0 »

Agadmator’s channel is truly a gem. He provides excellent analysis of interesting games and includes some great dives into chess history as well. I hope google gives an adequate explanation for this and makes sure it doesn’t happen again (not holding my breath)

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#184

Post by refenestrator »

aksss wrote: post #169
tp3 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems we are using black for bad and white for good in English, which is strange since we had never used them before. Also, I feel like blocking and allowing makes sense when it comes to language, because bad and white mean the same. But when it comes to code, which the rest of the world uses black to mean bad and white to mean good, I don't know if that makes sense.

> we had never used them before I think that language goes back eons. I think the black/white metaphor is employed in the book of Genesis/B'reshith for instance. People have been scared of the dark for more of human history than not. Nighttime is black, when things putrefy they turn black. Uncorrupted snow is white. The examples from nature are legion. What’s weird is using these terms for people. Maybe the more sens…

There was actually debate about this in the black activist community in the mid-late 60s. The more common term was 'negro' then, you can see it in earlier MLK writings, League of Negro Voters, etc. Stokely Carmichael was a leading voice in advocating for 'black'.

"According to a 1968 Newsweek poll, more than two-thirds of black Americans still preferred Negro, but black had become the majority preference by 1974." https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/question/2010/octo...

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#185

Post by nmfisher »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #119
metiscus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read heavily into this debate so this comes from a position of ignorance of the arguments. Feel free to link me to a reference if this has been analyzed along these lines already, I would like to learn. The convention seem to me to follow several similar motifs from the sciences. Black holes do not allow matter to escape and white holes are theoretical constructs that admit matter to the universe. The color…

I disagree with you on the light metaphor. Black things admit photons. White things reject photons. Here's some more extensive reading from an earlier article when Maven did this: https://www.adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/no-more-inf... The key bit: > It reminded me of an iconic BBC interview with Muhammad Ali in 1971 where he recalled that all the positive things he grew up with were white, from White Cloud t…

I'm going to be blunt - these types of anecdotes are just plain stupid. It's people picking and choosing examples to support their desired narrative, and just ignoring anything that contradicts it. There are just as many "bad" things in English that are also white - white elephant, white ant, whitewash, white whale. Why didn't he mention those?

The colour comparisons are also dumb, because "black" skin is actually more like dark brown and "white" skin isn't white at all, unless you're albino or incredibly sick (which again, points to how stupid it is to make comparisons like "white==good").

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#186

Post by rmrfrmrf »

awillen wrote: post #148
dehrmann wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting this case aside because it's sloppy reporting based on what another classifier found, this is a hard problem. Youtube gets too many videos and comments for humans to manually review them. Flagging helps, and Google likely uses ML more complex than just text and classifier (who is commenting, is the post trending, patterns in comments, etc.) When things do reach manual review, remember that humans make mistake…

People forget that they get these free services for free, and a big portion of that is because ML tools are able to cheaply do a really hard job of moderating. You hear about things like this because they're so unusual, which is a testament to the amount of time they work correctly without being noticed. Granted, there have been some issues with people getting banned from Google services for what appear to be wrong r…

Just because the user doesn't need to pay up-front doesn't mean the service operates at a loss (YouTube pulled in $15 billion in 2019, according to a quick search). Furthermore, YouTube Premium is a paid offering. IMO Alphabet just uses YouTube as a playground for its ML experiments because it can moreso than because it needs to for viability.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#187

Post by qlk1123 »

vvanders wrote: post #139
ben509 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of language-fixing slacktivism easily becomes a trend because it's highly visible and requires no genuine effort. It's complete bullshit, though. This particular bullshit is awful since it trivializes all this historic pain to some inane game of word association. There's no point arguing, though, just drag your heels until they get bored and go off on some other crusade.

I'm always surprised when someone goes through more effort to oppose something than to accept the PR and build a little trust. We did this in a codebase of ours recently, it really wasn't a big deal to make the change and I don't understand why everyone throws up a big stink about it. If I'm going to spend my energy on something it seems like there's bigger things to tackle than pushing back against branch renames.

A blacklist-to-blocklist PR may be OK for you, but a master-to-main PR is not OK at all for many others. Slavery is definite evil, but these PRs for branch renaming just went too far.

As someone not a U.S. citizen, the impact of PC is ridiculously huge. I know slavery and how bad it is. It appeared in my culture, and it is still there in some form too. However, the ENGLISH word "master" means not much to me. It is just a multi-purpose symbol, like many other words. As the meaning being a main branch, why bothering the renaming?

You claim that you are just spending your energy on something else, but in reality you are giving up the right to use your own language and to maintain the definition the meaning of a well-understood and frequently-used word.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#188

Post by aksss »

gedy wrote: post #110
js2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black list and its opposite, white list, associate black with bad and white with good. The usage of black in “black box” means opaque, not bad. So these aren’t the same. I had never thought about the connotations of blacklist and whitelist before it was pointed out to me. In retrospect, blacklist and whitelist are unnatural meanings of the words black and white, and blocklist and allowlist make much more sense. Conse…

That's true but the good/bad association is (Western) cultural, not racial.

In China, the color white represents death. Policing language like this is insane. Maybe just stop using colors to refer to people. I don’t see Asians standing up for the color yellow or asking for yellow traffic lights to be changed because of negative connotations with driving (that’s probably going to end up in a comedian’s routine by EOY - I release it under GPL ;).

Point being, what’s easier to fix?? Color associations with people or overturning thousands of timeless metaphors across many cultures?

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#189

Post by dogma1138 »

Retric wrote: post #163
dehrmann wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting this case aside because it's sloppy reporting based on what another classifier found, this is a hard problem. Youtube gets too many videos and comments for humans to manually review them. Flagging helps, and Google likely uses ML more complex than just text and classifier (who is commenting, is the post trending, patterns in comments, etc.) When things do reach manual review, remember that humans make mistake…

Actually watching every YouTube video uploaded would take ~100,000 people which is possible, but quite expensive. Actually watching every video that’s flagged for banning might take ~100 people and seem like a reasonable effort. As such arguments about using automated systems are meaningless, they can pre-filter without having final decision making authority.

Over 500 hours of video are uploaded each minute so yeah... even 100,000 people might not be enough to just deal With flags...

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#190

Post by _carbyau_ »

Fogest wrote: post #150
ben509 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of language-fixing slacktivism easily becomes a trend because it's highly visible and requires no genuine effort. It's complete bullshit, though. This particular bullshit is awful since it trivializes all this historic pain to some inane game of word association. There's no point arguing, though, just drag your heels until they get bored and go off on some other crusade.

In the last couple years especially I feel like I am walking on eggshells when talking to people. Especially when talking to people I don't know as well. It feels so easy to offend someone these days and I'm getting sick of it. I've been having to unfollow a ton of podcasts recently because no matter how far from being related to politics some podcasts are, they just love to make sure a chunk of the episode is devote…

I don't mind thinking about nebulous things and fully considering their consequences, including societal ones.

But that feeling of walking on eggshells is more related to a surveillance state coming from social media.

More explanatory than I could be: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-07/social-cooling-are-yo...

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