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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#441

Post by mlyle »

Retric wrote: post #437
mlyle wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electromigration is a small risk factor in any kind of reasonable life. Especially if not overvolted (which is something that mostly gamers do-- miners are more likely to undervolt). Solder fatigue breaking of solder balls is common. I have fixed lots of GPUs by reflowing them. GPUs do cycle over a large temperature range-- delta-T can be 50C+. While maps are loading, etc, you can have delta-T's of 25C+ every few min…

As all of those links mention it’s useful for a minority of dead cards as most are failing from other causes. That said, specific manufacturers can always introduce defects so your mileage may vary.

I strongly disagree. The dominant failure modes of electronics these days are:

A) solder joint failure (thermal cycling) B) capacitor failure (sustained heat).

Electromigration is a distant, end-of-life condition-- representing only a tiny fraction of failures of non-overvolted devices in a normal use period.

As your link itself says, in the top answer:

"But then there is an important question: How much does this decrease the lifespan? Knowing this, should you make sure that your graphics card stays cool all the time? My guess is no, unless an error was made at the design stage. Circuits are designed with these worst-case situations in mind, and made such that they will survive if they are pushed to the limits for the rated lifetime of the manufacturer. "

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#442

Post by _carbyau_ »

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Will CMP versions really be so single use as to be only good for mining?

I want to know if I could use one as a second card for 3D rendering. Although I guess the render farm people will know about that and suck those all up...

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#443

Post by 015a »

arcticbull wrote: post #242
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

> Don’t hate the player; hate the game.

Fuck that. I can hate the game, and the players who decide to play it.

There's zero chance of ending the economic incentives of cryptocurrency mining without (global) government intervention. Instead, the best effort the US government has provided is increasing SUPPORT for it.

Apple took a unique, aggressive, and still-controversial stance for privacy. This position has easily cost them a double-digit percent of their revenue; the amount of money they could generate from selling out their billion+ users, who are generally above-average income, in the same vein Google does, is unfathomable. I don't like Apple as a company, but I still feel its important to give them recognition for how industry-leading they were, and still are, in pushing for Privacy.

There are ethics which can transcend corporate interest, even when considering negative PR. There are some things companies just don't do. The excuse of "optimizing shareholder profit" and "hate the game" is bullshit; it moves the onus of responsibility off of companies who are fully capable of acting more ethically by blaming some Invisible Hand as if they had no choice in the matter.

That's bullshit. Jensen Huang had a choice. He made it. End of story. You want to shift some blame onto Ant and the miners themselves; that's all fair game for Round 2. But at this time, we're still on Round 1.

Its reasonable for Nvidia to stand by and do nothing. Graphics cards are, after all, general purpose computing hardware. Even after they've outlived a useful life in a mining farm, those miners may attempt to extract an ROI by reselling them in secondary markets. Not ideal, but certainly better than Nvidia's plan for the future.

Nvidia's plan is to, instead, support miners directly, while intentionally tiering consumer hardware, then positioning the entire move as somehow "Standing By Gamers". A dystopian science-fiction author legitimately could not write a more canonically evil storyline. I would change this position if Nvidia walks back, cancels the CMP line, and continues forward with driver limitations on the RTX 3060 with public plans to move to in-silicon ethereum mining protection on future cards; I think that's reasonable, given its fair to assume that the "ship has already sailed" on Ampere. Until then, fuck Nvidia; I'm not touching anything their hands are involved in.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#444

Post by girvo »

arcticbull wrote: post #242
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

One can easily hate both, no?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#445

Post by gsich »

chrisseaton wrote: post #406
gsich wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you need to use the word "streaming" correctly. Video streaming is not copying data to a different frame buffer. Nvidia with their Optimus technology doesn't call this "streaming". You used the same term for both.

> streaming is not copying data to a different frame buffer That's exactly what streaming means as a technical term: Examples: https://wiki.libsdl.org/SDL_TextureAccess https://community.khronos.org/t/streaming-texture/60774 https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Buffer_Object_Streaming

None of these links are related the conversation here. First one is even empty. Neither for "video streaming", nor for frame-buffer (Optimus) stuff.

Make up your mind. If I counter your "video streaming" argument, you can't come with "but I meant streaming on the same device" without even mentioning either a technology, or the most important thing there (the frame buffer). Now you want streaming to mean something that is used in game engines. How those 3 links help in making the mining card usable is for you to proof.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#446

Post by mseidl »

sellyme wrote: post #305
somehnrdr14726 wrote: post #279

At some point nvidia would be better off mining with these gpus than selling them. The oddest solution I can think of is gamers lease graphics cards at a low low price and nvidia mines on them in the off-hours. With a big enough operation they could force all the other miners into becoming resellers. It's free, distributed electricity and it gets the gamers off their backs. (While I have your attention, I'm pretty su…

> The oddest solution I can think of is gamers lease graphics cards at a low low price and nvidia mines on them in the off-hours. This would be a complete non-starter in markets with high electricity costs or temperatures. Running a GTX 3090 at 100% load during the summer where I live would cost $140/month and will heat up my room to about 65°C.

This is the other thing I don't understand.

I'm from Germany and our power is around 35 cents per khw.

Even using a 14th/s asic with bitcoin as high is it is now, you're losing lots of money. It uses 1,3 kilowatts.

The fact that the prices of the cards are so high in Germany now too... the 3080s are at 2000€ plus.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#447

Post by mseidl »

ddtaylor wrote: post #119

I don't think Nvidia (or most companies) should be deciding what to do with the tools they sell. I don't want someone telling me what software I can run with my CPU or GPU any more than I want someone telling me what I am allowed to build with the hammers or screwdrivers I buy.

Fuck miners. They drove the cost of the 1000 series cards up when btc peaked at 14k. Then the 2000 series was the same price as when the btc peaked. Now the 3080 is selling at 2000+ euros.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#448

Post by autocorr »

tuankiet65 wrote: post #394
autocorr wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive for Bitcoin with power consumption figures like those? Those numbers would suggest something like >20 USD. Is it because most transactions in practice actually happen internally on exchanges that avoid putting every individual transaction on the blockchain? I have limited knowledge of Bitcoin so maybe not quite "explain like I'm five"... but close…

The whole point of Bitcoin mining is to produce a block , which contains a bunch of transactions. The Bitcoin network dictates that each block's SHA256 hash starts with a certain number of zeroes, so the only way to achieve this is to brute force the block data until you find the "winning" block which hashes to a number of zeroes. Once someone finds a winning block, they're rewarded with a number of Bitcoin. This sub…

Thank you! That was a really helpful response.

That makes a lot more sense that many transactions are included within a block. So effective transaction fees are likely in the few cents USD range.

I've read that one issue with the latency of Bitcoin transactions is that many of the large miners from China have network issues. Would raising the block size to 10-100MB cause significant latency issues for transactions even if one could fit a lot more transactions into a single block?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#449

Post by loser777 »

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

If it has CUDA support it might make sense post-hashing for a cheap deep learning setup. I have two P106-100s (last gen "mining-only" cards) that were very cheap (compared to a GTX 1060) secondhand. The only hit is in PCI-E bandwidth if they decide to go with nerfed PCI-E 1.1 only.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#450

Post by anonisko »

lurgburg wrote: post #440
caycep wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the energy requirements and how it's kind of morphed into this beast of greed, I'm inclined to agree....but how to pull this off? Fiat bans cannot really work well against just doing math. Taxation schemes/financial regs tamping down on bitcoin speculation, what you can spend it on? By design I don't think you can just pump money into bitcoin in order to "deflate" its value without similarly consuming a lot of…

Perhaps a simple ban on converting fiat -> to bitcoin would go a long way? It wouldn't be absolute, black markets are a thing, but there are costs to participate in a black market, which costs will rise over time as good old physical cash declines.

It's definitely not this simple.

How would you execute an exchange ban politically? Any politicians who did this would be responsible for instantly vaporizing tons of value owned by an increasingly non negligible fraction of the population that spans a broad spectrum of political affiliation.

An exchange ban also wouldn't stop bitcoin, because the network would still continue running and anyone cutoff and stuck with bitcoin can still use it as a medium of exchange, and it could kick off its development as a direct unit of account. An exchange ban might even make using bitcoin as currency even easier, because if it's not legally exchangeable for fiat, how do you tax cap gains on it?

Stopping bitcoin is a REALLY hard problem. It would require a massive coordinated crack down by every government on the planet. And then you're left with a prisoner's dilemma. What happens if China or Russia publicly go along with such a ban, but secretly keep supporting it and buy up coins for themselves, preparing for a day when it will be the global reserve currency that dethrones the dollar? It's a similar game theory problem to why we will likely never live in a world without nuclear weapons.

The reason this will probably never happen is because every government will think through this game theory, and realize the risk of being on the wrong side of a potentially ineffective ban and hamstringing your nation's citizens and companies from participating and developing on the new global financial system, is greater than the cost of just capitulating and adapting to live with it.

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