Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#371

Post by imtringued » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #224

loceng wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the counter point, I, as a consumer of a GPU for non-mining purposes, appreciates the effort so demand is reduced for a product by a certain market segment - and thus allows the price to not be influenced by the demand of a decentralized, global MLM scheme. Also, you just don't buy that hardware - so it's not "what you can use your hardware for" - unless they're retroactively updating drivers to prevent the same u…

>global MLM scheme. What I'll say is that the absurdity of this trite dismissal presents a large undertaking for anyone to begin to try and teach you what cryptocurrencies are. Most of the silicon valley billionaires acknowledge it as a promising technology, if that doesn't warrant some serious (read: many hours of difficult reading) consideration than expecting strangers on a message board to help you do it seems a…

>I'll grant you that trite dismissal of cryptocurrencies in general is quite common on HN.

The unfortunate reality is that Bitcoin advocates all sound like people who bought into an MLM scheme. They desperately convince others that it has value and should go up.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#372

Post by bserge » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:30 PM UTC

ianhanschen wrote: post #104

Not a fan of miners disturbing GPU availability and pricing but this is a bad move. It’s not an engineering move, it’s a marketing move, and I’m sure the first attempt at doing this will come down to something just as shallow like a PCI PID check or some resistor strap check. Someone will find it worth the cost to make an FPGA based PCIe bridge that responds to the right knocks in the right way.

Not the first time they do this, either. They started limiting performance via firmware/software since Fermi iirc. Basically, nVidia's GTX and Quadro cards use the same exact chips but the latter have additional features and higher performance in professional applications.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#373

Post by apricot » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

social_quotient wrote: post #169

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Yeah, imagine if this applied to trucks. No one could use one for non truck bed usage. Ford disables ignition if it detects the bed is empty after X concurrent uses or miles. Trucks generally are often wasted (from a green perspective) because people like them not for their intended design utility. Same for single passenger SUV usage etc... (I drive an SUV - not trolling those that do)

> Yeah, imagine if this applied to trucks. No one could use one for non truck bed usage.

John Deere has entered the chat.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#374

Post by dheera » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

NVIDIA should instead just require people to take an exam about either games or machine learning in order to be able to purchase a GPU. Problem solved.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#375

Post by dahart » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:36 PM UTC

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #364

dahart wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am complaining because it goes against my interests. So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year? > I never said mining isn't affecting demand You said "NVDA's stance is that miners are the reason for scarce GPUs, but it is not." > the crypto rally started loooong after NVDA had supply issues This is irrelevant. You mean this time , right? There wasn't a supply problem last time before bitcoi…

> So you are already certain you want to buy a used 3060 next year? I wanted to buy a graphics card to run my models. I don't have the $$$ to buy a datacenter card for it and in general, I am affected by the demand and the scalpers. I was considering 3060 because my models are small and it is faster than my 1080ti, but at 21x9 1080p@60hz, it's not an upgrade for my gaming experience because that is capped by the moni…

> Linus and many others, me included, disagree with your opinion that NVDA is helping gamers. NVDA does not care about gamers, they are a corporation, they care for their bottom line and their stock price.

This argument that Nvidia is a company is a straw man. Valve is as much a corporation that doesn't care about gamers as Nvidia. I guarantee that Nvidia cares about gamers, precisely because gamers have a huge influence on NVDA's stock price and bottom line.

I love Linux, but Linus has a vested interest in opposing Nvidia in public, and has a long history of making inflammatory remarks, even to people he works with. Using his opinion as support of your claims here undermines the credibility of the discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

To attempt to move the goalpost back to where you first placed them, the question here is whether reserving 3060 sales for gamers is good or bad for gamers. You claim it's bad for gamers vs the second hand market next year, and I claim it's good for gamers vs the first hand market today. We haven't actually disagreed about this yet, because you haven't addressed how your opinion affects gamers right now.

I agree that this might lead to a different second hand market next year. It is true that the second hand sales next year might not be as low without first having a big mining bubble that first prices gamers out and then crashes. I just don't believe that cheap cards later makes up for what miners have already done to you. If you do, it seems like you're ignoring some of the big downsides of what's happened before and what's happening now.

> I am affected by the demand and the scalpers. I was considering 3060

If you want to buy a 3060 now, I don't understand why you can't see the CMP announcement as a good thing for you and your own bottom line.

If you want to buy a used, mined 3060 later, and give your money to a miner and not Nvidia, then I do understand your points.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#376

Post by mcny » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

mrec wrote: post #199

oooooooooooow wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd much rather change my extremely wasteful (can't overstate how much, from someone that makes an effort to minimize it) lifestyle, and much rather use the force of law so that everyone has to, before advocating or forcing such an asinine policy. Even if strange when it comes to animals, humanity progresses following rules similar to classic evolution, aka by randomly mixing stuff until something works. We've gotten…

> I seriously fail to understand anti-natalists I think it very much depends on how one experiences life. The two ends of that scale are largely incomprehensible to each other. Your point about "the next Newton" is unrelated, and IMO misses the mark. It's not coincidence that Newton, Hooke, Boyle etc appeared in the same place at the same time, and it's not because there'd been a crippling shortage of randomly arrang…

> The two ends of that scale are largely incomprehensible to each other.

Absolutely. Just to set the record straight, I am not anti-birth and I think I agree with GP more than I disagree. We must do everything we can to reduce the carbon footprint per person. I am just logically following what my parent post said.

I didn't even know the word anti-natalist. I want all children who are born to be healthy and reach their full potential as productive adults. One child is a blessing. Two is also fine (I have a sibling).

At least in a developed country, if someone has eight or more (not born at the same time) children, they are terrorizing the environment in my eyes. I don't see how you can justify that with access to decent healthcare and the infant mortality rate is under ten.

I mean if you live in a place where infant mortality rate is over a hundred (a quick web search shows that IMR in Afghanistan is over 110 which means a hundred and ten die before the age of one of every thousand infants born), I can't imagine the pain and suffering the parents must be going through.

We clearly can do better. The open question is how.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#377

Post by sneak » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

bserge wrote: post #372

ianhanschen wrote: post #104

Not a fan of miners disturbing GPU availability and pricing but this is a bad move. It’s not an engineering move, it’s a marketing move, and I’m sure the first attempt at doing this will come down to something just as shallow like a PCI PID check or some resistor strap check. Someone will find it worth the cost to make an FPGA based PCIe bridge that responds to the right knocks in the right way.

Not the first time they do this, either. They started limiting performance via firmware/software since Fermi iirc. Basically, nVidia's GTX and Quadro cards use the same exact chips but the latter have additional features and higher performance in professional applications.

I think the EULA also says that you can't use the drivers for the non-expensive cards in multitenant/datacenter setups.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#378

Post by PartiallyTyped » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #366

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about here? My argument is rather simple and you are wilfully misinterpreting it to make your statement. If you want to game, at 1080p, there is very little reason to spend money on a big upgrade, even going with 3xxx series is an overkill. > Last time I checked, there weren’t all that many games that run at 60Hz 1080p and never dip. CITATION NEEDED. The 3060ti is benchmarked at 4k hitting mid to…

> even going with 3xxx series is an overkill. Then why do you care at all about the 3060 segmentation into CMP cards?

I dislike companies that pay lipservice or are pretentious like NVDA. On the positive side, I own shares, so I am making money off of it.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#379

Post by imtringued » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #321

loceng wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I'll say is that the absurdity of this trite dismissal ..." Are you talking about your trite dismissal of my stating it's a global MLM scheme - which it fits the pattern for precisely? And also a Ponzi scheme because the final latest adopters are left holding the bag - meanwhile wealth was unnecessarily transferred weighted towards the earliest adopters. Blockchain is a promising technology, designing it like B…

>meanwhile wealth was unnecessarily transferred weighted towards the earliest adopters. How many companies and technologies is this true or? Does this make them all MLM schemes? Nothing about your response indicates you're giving me a generous interpretation at all, especially given how much of this response is you dumping rhetoric on me. Being snarky and in the same breath elaborately calling me "holier-than-thou" s…

It's entirely possible to extract value from a stock if the company represented by a stock is doing productive work.

Companies exist to make a profit and many of them do so by providing a service or by selling goods. The profit is paid out through dividends or stock buy backs. As an owner of a stock you have to do absolutely nothing to extract value from that stock. The company is automatically paying out money to you. There is no need to worry about finding a future buyer of your stock because you are assuming that people are analyzing the value of the company and buying it based on that analysis, because if the company keeps doing stock buybacks forever eventually your shares will be the only ones left and if you sell your shares you have cashed out your money without selling to a different investor.

With Bitcoin there are no dividends or buybacks. The only way you can realize value from Bitcoin as an investment is by hoping another investor is buying it from you. These complaints apply to gold as well. It doesn't generate revenue, it produces little value beyond industrial uses, all it should do is track inflation and tracking inflation is a very low bar and in practice cryptocurrencies and gold are outpacing inflation. Stocks too but if you were to invest based on fundamentals there will be a day in the future when your analysis will be spot on. Fundamentals would tell you to stay away from Tesla stock.

But this isn't where problems end, it's where they start. Currencies are not supposed to appreciate. They are supposed to stay the same over long periods of time with a small amount of inflation (around 2%). Bitcoin failed to become a currency and that's why it's worthless.

>you don't seem receptive to another interpretation to intelligent people thinking a technology is promising

I know you are not talking about me but I specifically stated that literally any other cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin is fine, even Ethereum is better than Bitcoin. The insistence that a single specific flawed cryptocurrency is worthy of defense is what really irritates me. There is no need to defend Bitcoin. Stop defending it. You can talk about any other cryptocurrency. You can talk about decentralized apps, you can talk about lightning, you can talk about defi, you can talk about uniswap or rubic, you can talk about prediction markets. Please, talk about anything other than Bitcoin and if you do talk about Bitcoin recognize its flaws and weaknesses.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#380

Post by gsich » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #258

gsich wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No? Why would they need to be in different machines? You can stream from one GPU to another, whether they're in the same machine or not. One GPU may be a cheap little one built into your motherboard. You probably already have it anyway! Thats not really called "streaming". So given that somewhere in this thread there was a youtube link on how to do that, which required testmode in Windows - it's still not practical.

> Thats not really called "streaming". The data would literally be streamed along a bus from one storage to another. The name ‘streaming’ literally appears in some APIs you’d use to do it!

Then you need to use the word "streaming" correctly. Video streaming is not copying data to a different frame buffer. Nvidia with their Optimus technology doesn't call this "streaming". You used the same term for both.