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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#191

Post by reader_mode »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #173
throw14082020 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this move to make GPUs more available for non-crypto users. As someone who wants to buy an AMD GPU to run my Ryzen machine, I have been waiting 2 weeks because there is no supply of GPUs at the RRP price. I can only buy the 2 year old models for double the price they sold for.

We have a global chip shortage. NVidia isn't magically pulling more GPUs out of their asses. Yes as they claim some chips might be defective in a way that makes them unsuitable for a graphics card but still work as a mining chip, but if you believe that they won't redirect perfectly fine chips into mining card production if demand permits it, just because they care so much about gamers and not their shareholders, I g…

Mining demand is volatile and will use whatever gives them best hashing/$ ratio - pissing miners off might lose you some cash short term but gamers are much more susceptible to branding, and not to mention devs optimise for popular hardware - if AMD suddenly became a major market % holder in the gaming market because NV shipped their silicon to miners, once mining dips down they get slammed. And if they are hoping production will ramp up to match demand some time in the future they still want to have a winning product.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#192

Post by bretpiatt »

anothernewdude wrote: post #112
m3kw9 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.

They literally did that with the PS3 for clusters (though not for crypto mining) and shut down the ability to do it.

To my knowledge they didn't shut it down, PS4 architecture moved to standard x86 PC so no longer advanced vector units available through PlayStation that you couldn't get separately in an easier to work with way. This led to the rise of the current Top 500 which are a mix of CPU and GPU.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#193

Post by R0b0t1 »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #180
pantalaimon wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPUs are not mechanical parts (well save for the fans but those can be replaced). I would imagine thermal stress from heating and cooling would be the biggest issue - you don't get that under constant load.

Heat = bad for silicon. Also electromigration. And probably a couple other effects I don't know about.

Heat is bad, but MTTF at usually achievable temperatures is hundreds or thousands of years.

Electromigration matters on the order of 100 years.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#194

Post by R0b0t1 »

Retric wrote: post #136
gruez wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not to mention crypto miners will often have the GPUs overclocked on top of running full tilt to get every last hash out of it. It's about as brutal of a situation as you can get for a GPU. This is false because miners often undervolt to achieve better efficiency. The popular GPU mining algorithms are all memory-bound, so you can undervolt your core clocks quite a bit and still get >95% of the original performance.

That depends on how valuable the last 5% of your hash rate is and local electricity prices. Running an OC especially for memory can objectively be the correct choice. For collage dorms for example rarely charge based on electricity use. Some apartment complexes also include electricity as part of the rent.

Power cost is not typically something people consider when deciding to overvolt. Have you ever done any mining?

Most people prioritize the longevity of the cards. Resale value is not negligible.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#195

Post by derefr »

bretpiatt wrote: post #190
m3kw9 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.

"Running on more than 1,700 PS3s that were connected by five miles of wire, the Condor Cluster was huge, dwarfing Khanna’s project, and it used to process images from surveillance drones. During its heyday, it was the 35th fastest supercomputer in the world."* Back at PS2/PS3 they were used for computing, Sony actually released a kit and had paid staff helping people who wanted to build PS2 supercomputers -- a good f…

Sure, but this still only consumed a tiny fraction of the Playstations in production at the time, rather than ~all of them. There are only so many HPC labs in the world (and an HPC lab using PS3s is a font of good press coverage for Sony!) while there are as many crypto-miners as the market will bear (and they generate only negative press coverage on top.)

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#196

Post by ryebit »

galangalalgol wrote: post #179
throw14082020 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this move to make GPUs more available for non-crypto users. As someone who wants to buy an AMD GPU to run my Ryzen machine, I have been waiting 2 weeks because there is no supply of GPUs at the RRP price. I can only buy the 2 year old models for double the price they sold for.

How long until gpgpu isn't cost effective for mining? I know a lot of fpgas went on ebay for cheap when the new xilinx line came out. The watt per hash has to be lower for fpgas already. Will the cost of a coin always reflect the current price to make a new one and thus gpgpu will always be a cost effective technique?

I think right now biggest earner for GPU mining is Ethereum. And (I think) it's aiming to move to Proof of Stake sometime in next 12-24 months, which kinda time limits the utility of both Eth-specific mining chips, and large investments in GPU mining (unless mining burns GPUs out really fast?).

Regardless, most proof of work algorithms are already being optimized with ASICs (ala bitcoin)... Or, like Ethereum's ETHASH alg, they have a step requiring high throughput random access to large amounts of memory, ala scrypt or argon (5gb or so for ETHASH right now, and slowly increasing). That's what's kept ASICs from being profitable for Eth, and is probably limiting factor for FPGAs as well. Though maybe there are FPAGs with dedicated memory on par with a modern GPU?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#197

Post by R0b0t1 »

mckirk wrote: post #107
vimy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can electronics actually wear out?

There is the effect of 'electromigration' at least, which causes atoms of conducting materials to be transported over time because of the current (if I understand it correctly). That might be an issue over the long term, especially at the ridiculously small scale of chip manufacturing we've reached now.

Takes 100yrs on current processes to break a particularly weak bond wire.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#198

Post by rincebrain »

bretpiatt wrote: post #192
anothernewdude wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally did that with the PS3 for clusters (though not for crypto mining) and shut down the ability to do it.

To my knowledge they didn't shut it down, PS4 architecture moved to standard x86 PC so no longer advanced vector units available through PlayStation that you couldn't get separately in an easier to work with way. This led to the rise of the current Top 500 which are a mix of CPU and GPU.

No, they famously shut down the ability to use PS3s for this and got sued for it.[1]

Not ever having the functionality in the PS4 and later doesn't imply they didn't remove it in prior cases.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#199

Post by mrec »

oooooooooooow wrote: post #90
mcny wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you reduce this argument, the best way to help our planet is to have fewer children. I’d argue the target total fertility rate per woman should be somewhere below one. To hell with economic growth that relies on an ever increasing human population.

I'd much rather change my extremely wasteful (can't overstate how much, from someone that makes an effort to minimize it) lifestyle, and much rather use the force of law so that everyone has to, before advocating or forcing such an asinine policy. Even if strange when it comes to animals, humanity progresses following rules similar to classic evolution, aka by randomly mixing stuff until something works. We've gotten…

> I seriously fail to understand anti-natalists

I think it very much depends on how one experiences life. The two ends of that scale are largely incomprehensible to each other.

Your point about "the next Newton" is unrelated, and IMO misses the mark. It's not coincidence that Newton, Hooke, Boyle etc appeared in the same place at the same time, and it's not because there'd been a crippling shortage of randomly arranged characteristics before that. The right characteristics aren't enough, you also need the leisure to develop them (which implies material surplus) and a society that makes sufficient use of scientific discoveries to value and propagate them. Nobody would have heard of Isaac Newton if he'd been born a subsistence farmer. I'm sure lots of potential Isaac Newtons were, and in many ways that's a tragedy.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#200

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #186
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investing involves spending money with the intent to make financial returns on your investment. Buying assets "as a hobby" that depreciate or generate no income, is just that, buying for a hobby, not investing.

People invest in all sorts of things they don’t seriously expect a financial return from. Like sports teams.

Yeah but that's just spending money, not investing.
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