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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#341
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although you may disagree with the current value of most cryptocurrencies I would like to clarify something. I didn't say I disagreed with the value of cryptocurrencies (that is, its value in dollars). I said I find their societal cost way too high. In other terms, (Inherent Value of crypto > would you at least agree that their inhenrant value isn't 0? I agree with that. Although my previous answer stated "I don't…

Can you elaborate on what you mean by Societal Costs of crypto? > I have said it a few times on HN: I see more potential into a "Crypto Dollar" than in crypto in general. This, and the potential of smart contracts that use the "Crypto Dollar" are where I see the most potential.

> Can you elaborate on what you mean by Societal Costs of crypto?

Here are some of the associated costs of crypto:

- Environmental effects for the energy consumption that is not clean and the corresponding breakeven for clean energy.

- Subsidized costs of energy are a direct cost into governments budget.

- By increasing electricity consumption miners are increasing the demand and therefore the cost. This drives up inequality.

I haven't found a better term than "Societal Costs" that summarizes all these costs.

> This, and the potential of smart contracts that use the "Crypto Dollar" are where I see the most potential.

Absolutely!

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#342

Well at least you could say it potentially helps the environment now that you won't have bunch of gamers crypto mining, or does that not matter the moment there is a drawback that affects us?

I’d argue it’s worse for the environment. These so-called mining cards can’t be used as regular GPUs since they don’t have any outputs - they are compute only. Once they outlive their usefulness they become e-waste since there would be no sustainable secondary market. At least a gaming GPU could be re-sold or otherwise repurposed.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#343
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes down to opinion but I'd argue there is inherent value in a trustless medium of exchange, a trustless explicit protocol for lending, market making (exchange) or gambling or the platform that powers them. I'd also agree that price bubbles happen and future speculation becomes a dominating factor in their price action, but this doesn't mean they don't have inherent value.

It isn't trustless. If it's finance, it's trust based at the very core. Somebody is trusting somebody else to recognize the value up for offer, and being capable of converting it to a utilizable form. This is what crypto-enthusiasts must be blind to. We could be using bottlecaps to do the same bloody thing. Nobody wants to though. Why? Because nobody else takes the value assertion of a bottle cap seriously. As long a…

It's not about trusting if the bottle caps are worth anything or are useful, but if the supply and exchange of bottle caps follows the financial rules that are dictated.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#344
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Is it impossible to game on these?

While officially impossible, theoretically it should be work, in the same way as laptop GPUs (the dedicated GPU gives the rendered image back to the integrated GPU for seamless switching instead of outputing it directly).

It has been tried 2 years ago on LinusTechTips: https://youtu.be/TY4s35uULg4

TL;DW: Very weird and extremely unofficial, but it can be done.

These might still be some cheap rendering cards on Linux when they're used up.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#345
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this really good news, or is this just Nvidia playing both sides? To be clear, these CMP cards are still the same exact silicon that goes into GeForce and Quadro graphics cards. They don't have video outputs, cooling should be improved (for large-scale data center mining operations), and they're better tuned for efficiency. But every single GPU sold as a CMP card means one less GPU sold as a graphics card. What'…

They're actively not winning good pr because gamers realize they're being screwed despite nvidia's rhetoric, and miners can now no longer recoup some money from old cards they no longer need by reselling to gamers. And, everyone realizes how shit this is for the environment. You can say Nvidia is making a smart business decision (questionable) but to say this isn't anything other than a pr disaster imo is incorrect.…

The initial sentiment in hacker news and reddit threads was overwhelmingly positive for nividia and against miners.

Now that some time has passed and Linus (from LTT) has released his video I'd say the sentiment is still mixed. I'm still seeing many tweets praising nividia for finally taking a step for gamers.

Here's an austrilian tech Youtuber who should know better: https://youtu.be/jnoNryem-G8

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#346

> The company also limited the mining performance of the soon-to-be-launched RTX 3060 cards to roughly 50% of the normal performance What does that mean? What has NVIDIA actually done on those cards? Also, if this doesn't effect 3050, 70, 80 , Ti's, Quadro's and Tesla's - does it really matter all that much?

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#347
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Is it impossible to game on these?

That’s the intention at least. They lack output ports, for example.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#348
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

You are aware that this already happens to BTC ASICs when the new generation of ASIC comes out, right? Straight to the landfill. BTC is very wasteful, this is not new.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it impossible to game on these?

While officially impossible, theoretically it should be work, in the same way as laptop GPUs (the dedicated GPU gives the rendered image back to the integrated GPU for seamless switching instead of outputing it directly). It has been tried 2 years ago on LinusTechTips: https://youtu.be/TY4s35uULg4 TL;DW: Very weird and extremely unofficial, but it can be done. These might still be some cheap rendering cards on Linux…

Depends on what NVidia takes out. If they remove the triangle fill units, they're unsuitable for graphics but OK for "mining". That leaves the more general purpose parts that let you do arithmetic in parallel. Those might also be useful for machine learning.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#350
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is simple really. By intentionally dropping the hashrate, you reduce the incentive to buy the GPUs for mining. This means that when or if the mining craze stops akin to 2018, there would be plenty of second hand 3xxx series cards to go around, which would only hurt NVDA's pocket. Recall that during the previous craze, NVDA was stuck with a huge inventory of GPUs after the craze ended, inventory that can…

What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now. Right, like you point out, in 2018, Nvidia was making a lot of money on leftover 1080s. And they’re proposing to not do that this time. Are you suggesting that gamers are going to bypass a $33…

> What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now.

Re very used: no. Cards used for mining are a) undervolted and b) underclocked, both increase lifespan and I'd take them over an overclocked card used for gaming, plus they don't run that hot because at those scales cooling is expensive.

> Right, like you point out, in 2018, Nvidia was making a lot of money on leftover 1080s. And they’re proposing to not do that this time.

I never said NVDA was making money off leftover 1080s because there weren't left over 1080s, it was 1050tis which they are selling off again. The same 1050tis that they held onto during 2018.

> Are you suggesting that gamers are going to bypass a $330 card for a year in hopes that mining will crash and they can get a used one for $200 that’s been running hot for an entire year, and then after waiting, give up on that and buy a brand new GPU?

As I mentioned above, mining GPUs are usually in better conditions than in some dusty and improperly cooled rig and, simply put, there aren't $330 cards for anyone to buy. If people wish to buy $330 cards, they can buy them, but for me, at 21x9 1080p@60 there is no reason to upgrade from my used 1080ti, and had I really needed something better, I'd consider a used 3060.

> You say potato, I say demand. You’re hand-wavily suggesting that mining is not affecting supply at all. That’s just not true. Mining demand is making an already bad problem (for gamers) much worse, just like it did last time.

I never said mining isn't affecting demand but, a) the crypto rally started loooong after NVDA had supply issues, b) Amd has supply issues with their CPUs and they are utterly irrelevant to mining, c) this generation of consoles made with the same wafers can't meet the demand. The demand was there before this cycle of mining frenzy.

> What is the huge profit windfall you’re suggesting happens after this current mining bubble pops? Nvidia isn’t going to have an oversupply of cards to sell, and they aren’t hiking the price of the 3060.

They won't because they are artificially limiting the hashrate, and they are producing more chips for mining. Last time around, people managed to get around the no display issue and could game on "mining gpus" (see Linus Tech Tips, they have 2 videos on the topic), but now NVDA is locking people outside with firmware making reusing mining gpus impossible.

I am complaining exactly because NVDA is taking care of their shareholders and their bottom lines. I am complaining because it goes against my interests.

Gamers are not screwed by miners, gamers are screwed because the pandemic caused a huge influx of people demanding chips, so much so, that even automotive manufactures can't find chips.

I am tired of this conversation and you are either taking my sentences out of context and blow them out of proportion.

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