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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#141
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it. It's not really the same because playstations are sold at break-even or at a loss with the expectation that follow-up revenue would make up for it. On the other hand no such dynamic exists for nvidia. For them, sale to a miner is the same as a sale to gamer.

This may look true from the perspective of a single sale, but in the long term this just doesn't hold up. NVIDIA builds a strong and long-held reputation with gamers, and are a well renowned name in the field. If they made cards for miners at the detriment of gamers, they risk losing that valuable market position.

This is a common sentiment I see on discussion forums, but I think it's wishful thinking at best. Most consumers aren't enthusiasts that follow these types of news, and even the ones who do probably won't care/remember a few years down the line. After all, nvidia seems to be doing just fine despite their long history of anti-consumer practices over the years.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#142
post #92
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gamers will generally try to avoid buying preowned graphics cards that have been used for mining. Running them 24/7 at full pelt tends to “age” they quicker than one that’s just been used for gaming.

Can electronics actually wear out?

Yes. It’s estimated that modern electronics have a lifespan of about 5 years. And they don’t always fail in obvious (or obviously bad) fashion.

Here’s a fun report from NASA that I love to cite (it is also the citation for my lifespan claim).

https://c3.nasa.gov/dashlink/static/media/other/ObservedFail...

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#143
This is just par for the course on closed down hardware. The manufacturer decides how you use it, that's how it has always been. I'm actually happy about this news, I hope it raises awareness for the need of open hardware, it's not like I'd ever buy one of these cards when competitors at least have open source drivers. Lack of hardware freedom generating electronic waste isn't unheard of either.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#144
post #79
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

I agree. It's a bad move. Provide a better product for mining .. don't cripple what's out there. This feels similar to when Nurofen tried to repackage generic drugs for different types of pain. I.e. ultimately a branding exercise. -- Edit: spelling and s/paracetamol/generic drugs

The product is named Nurofen and its generic name is ibuprofen .

If you want to talk about acetaminophen/paracetamol than brand names would be Efferalgan or Tylenol

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#145
post #55
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocurrency? You presume the total energy consumption would be the same whereas it'd be more likely that GPUs that are used for mining will be used 24/7 whereas gaming is likely to be performed by a human being who cannot or would not utilize the GPU nearly as many hours of the day.

This should be weighted against these mining cards becoming e-waste instead of entering the seccond hand market. The energy used to manufacturea GPU is a significant part of its overall impact.

I don’t know anybody who will willingly buy a second hand video card used for mining cryptocurrency. They’ve been pushed so hard, for so long, that their useful lifespan is pretty much used up. It’s a big part of the reason they’re being sold and not continued to be used.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#146
post #107
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can electronics actually wear out?

There is the effect of 'electromigration' at least, which causes atoms of conducting materials to be transported over time because of the current (if I understand it correctly). That might be an issue over the long term, especially at the ridiculously small scale of chip manufacturing we've reached now.

Not only that, there is also diffusion caused by difference of concentration, which is increased by heat. And you have that concentration difference at the p-n boundaries/junctions in an IC.

Though I'm not sure how much actual damage you'd see in practice, whether the ICs tend to die with intense use before e.g. the capacitors mentioned above.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#147
post #101
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.

This example makes no sense to me.

I would have had Sony and friends not create a closed ecosystem in the first place.

You're replying in a thread about (compared to consoles) general purpose computers, which developers depend on gamers actually playing their games on, being effectively DRMed.

I don't particularly care about shareholder obligations in this case. I'm glad this incentive structure exists, and it doesn't necessarily inform my ethos.

This is being received well by people who are practically triggered by the notion of cryptocurrency operations.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#148
post #101
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.

They are obligated to shareholders. But i am not a shareholder. I am a gamer who wants to buy a new graphics card. So i am going to scream, boycot and lobby government against them until the needs of thier shareholders bend a little closer to those of thier consumers. Free speech is a necessary part of a free market.

Maybe nvidia should be held responsible for thier products. Anyone else up to support a law imposing disposal obligations on single-use products designed to kill secondary markets? When the boom slows, the miners can give these cards back to nvidia for environmentally friendly recycling.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#149
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not usable without display ports.

You can still render without a display port and use the output image to for example stream it to another display.

Nvidia will make sure that no one can use "mining" cards like this.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#150
post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

I suppose people cracking passwords might buy otherwise outdated CMP cards. Could be a boon for that space.
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