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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#51

Post by qqii »

A lot of people are claiming this as a win for the non mining consumer but as the articles puts it:

> Nvidia does state that these GPUs "don't meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don't impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers." Frankly, that doesn't mean much. What does Nvidia do with a GPU that normally can't be sold as an RTX 3090? They bin it as a 3080, and GA102 chips that can't meet the 3080 requirements can end up in a future 3070 (or maybe a 3070 Ti). The same goes for the rest of the line. Make no mistake: These are GPUs that could have gone into a graphics card. Maybe not a reference 3060 Ti, 3070, 3080, or 3090, but we've seen TU104 chips in RTX 2060 cards, so anything is possible.

There's also seemingly little value for miners:

> Note that the 90HX lists an Ethereum hash rate of just 86MH/s and a 320W TGP. After a bit of tuning, an RTX 3080 can usually do 94MH/s at 250W or less, so these cards (at least out of the box) aren't any better.

> It gets worse as you go down the line, though. 50HX only does 45MH/s at 250W — that basically matches the tuned performance of the RTX 2060 Super through RTX 2080 Super, with a TGP that's still twice as high as what we measured. It's also half the speed of an RTX 3080 while potentially still using the same GPU (10GB VRAM). Or maybe it's a TU102 that couldn't work with 11 memory channels, so it's been binned with 10 channels. Either way, who's going to want this? 40HX at 36MH/s and 185W and 30HX at 26MH/s and 125W are equally questionable options.

Restrictions placed on the 3060 has also confirmed to be more than just the drivers:

> According to Bryan Del Rizzo, director of global PR for GeForce, more things are working behind the driver. > According to Mr. Del Rizzo: "It's not just a driver thing. There is a secure handshake between the driver, the RTX 3060 silicon, and the BIOS (firmware) that prevents removal of the hash rate limiter." This means that essentially, NVIDIA can find any way to cripple the mining hash rate even if you didn't update your driver version. At the same time, according to Kopite7Kimi, we are possibly expecting to see NVIDIA relaunch its existing SKUs under a different ID, which would feature a built-in anti-crypto mining algorithm. What the company does remains to be seen.

(from https://www.techpowerup.com/278712/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3060-a...)

Unfortunately for those that think this would be a good move, I'd agree with this article that:

> Nvidia probably can't implement the same restrictions on existing GPUs without facing a class action lawsuit...

To put it best is Linus from LTT (https://youtu.be/XfIibTBaoMM):

1. Silicone production is finite

2. These cards have no after market value

Nividia isn't doing anyone but themselves any favours by releasing this.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#52

Post by leovailati »

terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

Other people in this thread bring up great counterpoints. Namely, gaming is not nearly as intensive as mining and whatever value gaming brings to society is more than that of mining.

I'd also say that gaming at least occupies the human who is playing. Mining would be running in the background: the human would still be consuming energy doing something else. So one doesn't replace the other. Therefore using the inefficiency of one to justify the inefficiency of the other is not a valid argument.

One last observation: you're assuming that all these video cards would still have been produced. Maybe production of hardware has gone up to serve the mining demand.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#54

Post by Tenoke »

Sonnen wrote: post #49
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

Gaming gives people enjoyment. They are not consuming other energy sources and to a certain degree, i think this is okay. It also combines and supports advantages in science by making this more affordable for the rest. You can still critizie it and there have been huge energy savings for idle GPUs which was not the case 10? years ago. Nonetheless, one thing doesn't make the other thing better or worse. Doing bitcoin…

>They are not consuming other energy sources and to a certain degree, i think this is okay.

Both are using energy, I don't know what the 'other' even r refers to.

>It also combines and supports advantages in science by making this more affordable for the rest.

.. Both of those apply for crypto. Better GPUs are developed because of usage, gaming usage doesn't necessarily give you more than crypto usage and cryptocurrencies are putting a lot of money into cryptography.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#55

Post by qqii »

almog wrote: post #12
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocurrency? You presume the total energy consumption would be the same whereas it'd be more likely that GPUs that are used for mining will be used 24/7 whereas gaming is likely to be performed by a human being who cannot or would not utilize the GPU nearly as many hours of the day.

This should be weighted against these mining cards becoming e-waste instead of entering the seccond hand market. The energy used to manufacturea GPU is a significant part of its overall impact.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#56

Post by Tenoke »

robkop wrote: post #32
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

We can do some quick estimates to compare (using a 3090 because I helped a friend do a bit of mining on theirs and I know what figures are plausible): First some variables: RTX3090 idle power usage = 21 Watts RTX3090 mining power usage = 270 Watts RTX3090 gaming power usage = 350 Watts Mining energy usage: 270W \* 24H = 6.48 kWH per day Gaming energy usage: (low, 1 hour per day) 350W \* 1H + 21W \* 23H = 0.37 kWH per…

Good comparison though it misses some externalities.

Gamers also use monitors(~40W) for many hours a day, and run the whole machine with 1 card while many miners minimize all other costs but the GPUs. Also gamers typically damage their cards a bit faster and change them for newer ones faster on average (miners keep mining with very old cards still).

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#57

Post by Tenoke »

znpy wrote: post #48
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? No. Really, no. Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately. OTOH, gaming hardware very often has a second life in the form of used hardware and lower-specced gaming computers. Don't be fooled by YouTube influencers, most of the real people won't be buying th…

>Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately.

Except people are still mining with cards they bought 4-5 years ago. This is not True.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#58

Post by aemreunal »

josalhor wrote: post #21
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I never had that specific opinion, but I have another point of view. Games bring inherent value to the table. That is, if you didn't play games you would be reading a book, go…

> I don't see tangible value in crypto. Crypto is worth what other people are willing to pay for it.

That's pretty much true for anything that has financial value, though. Setting aside the chemical properties of gold (conductivity, resistance to corrosion, etc.) that make it more valuable than some other metals, pretty much every financial construct in human culture is only valuable because we decided it was valuable. That's not to say everything is inherently valueless, but crypto is not too dissimilar to, say, digital coins for a game; you just can't usually swap it back in the latter case so it has little/no tangible value. Similarly, the value of stocks, foreign currency, even money itself fluctuates daily. As long as you can swap it back to "real" money, I see it as having tangible value.

That being said, I personally choose not to get involved in any cryptocurrency because I would rather invest in more "established" forms of value, like stocks and bonds and whatnot.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#59

Post by qqii »

pmiller2 wrote: post #38
josalhor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I never had that specific opinion, but I have another point of view. Games bring inherent value to the table. That is, if you didn't play games you would be reading a book, go…

> I don't see tangible value in crypto. Crypto is worth what other people are willing to pay for it. If you wanted to invest in an asset that does not depend on the currency you could buy gold. Try convincing any crypto "enthusiast" of that, though. Literally none of them have ever been able to explain to me why cryptocurrencies should have value, but that doesn't stop them from proclaiming it the best thing since sl…

It comes down to opinion but I'd argue there is inherent value in a trustless medium of exchange, a trustless explicit protocol for lending, market making (exchange) or gambling or the platform that powers them.

I'd also agree that price bubbles happen and future speculation becomes a dominating factor in their price action, but this doesn't mean they don't have inherent value.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#60

Post by qqii »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #44
chrisseaton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably people enjoy investing in crypto. It’s a hobby for many, like gaming.

>investing in crypto Crypto is an investment the same way $GME or playing the roulette is an investment. Better term would be speculating or gambling. Nothing wrong with either, but let's call it what it is.

Comparing it to roulette is such a hyperbole. Would you say that penny stocks are playing the roulette? You may argue they have similar odds but there are fundimental differences between them.
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