>Error code: 16 >This request was blocked by the security rules GDPR?
Nope, not unless Singapore is covered by the GDPR.
Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
171–180 of 266 posts
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
In most disasters for which gouging laws would apply, won't the gas stations still run out even without such laws? The gas stations usually run out because the disaster stops transportation into the disaster area so the gas stations can't get resupplied.
What happened before the gouging laws was random people would fill 5 gallon jerry cans with gas and drive into the disaster zone and sell it out of the back of their pickup. They'd do other supplies, too. They'd appear on the scene almost immediately, sometimes days ahead of government relief. But the anti-gouging laws put a stop to that, and now people are forced to wait for government relief.
Governments should always be considered a provider of last resort. They are absolutely necessary, you can't talk yourself out of that, however this should never prevent the existence of a private market that can respond faster.
The primary advantage of markets is that they excel at providing value very efficiently. The downside is that they service the most profitable customers first so in fringe cases there will be a large segment of people without service.
The primary advantage of governments is that they can afford to be altruistic and ensure fairness. However, they are inefficient and slow to respond, meaning they will not solve the problem to a satisfying extent and only do the bare minimum.
If you do both you get the best of both worlds. Those who cannot afford private service can wait for government relief. Those who cannot wait for government relieve can pay for private service. The private market keeps the government in check, the government keeps the private market in check. They cover each other's backs.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Free markets do account for huge shortages, but we’ve eliminated the motivation for actors to do something about it with anti price-gouging regulations. There would be tons of stockpiles if businesses could appropriately upcharge when there was mass panic buying. Instead we stupidly lock prices, which wipes out most of the point of paying extra storage costs compared to a just in time competitor. The problem is we’ve…
There is no way it would be effecient to perpetually store 1000X your regular demand just to upsell in an unprecendented crisis, regardless of price gouging policies.
This is true, but it would be just as true whether you did it in a free market or through some government program because the inefficiency comes from having to make and store that stuff. A free market just gives us more ways to quantify that inefficiency.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should read his other comments. Most are quickly killed. Not sure if bot or schizo, but interesting.
No, they're not interesting, which is why they've been downvoted.
With all due respect, they are more interesting than what most of you are posting. Reminds me of old Terry, may he rest in peace.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right it creates perverse incentives, but so does the current system. For instance check this article [0] that shows pictures of Houston's skyline during the recent power outages where completely empty skyscrapers are wasting power while ordinary people freeze. I'd rather have poor people using electricity than rich corporations. At least keeping people warm is productive. [0] https://heavy.com/news/photos-ho…
>I'd rather have poor people using electricity than rich corporations. Deicing power plants and pipelines requires electricity. If electricity cost is $9000/MWh then paying that money is worth it since you unlock the ability to produce more electricity and sell the additional production capacity you brought online for $7000/MWh. Repeat this with multiple power plants and you are back to $100/MWh. If you just hand it…
None of the skyscrapers in those pictures are power plants or pipelines. Human beings were freezing to death while empty corporate headquarters remained lit up like xmas.
Maybe there should be some reserve power in the system to make sure power plants have capacity to heal themselves, sure. But that's really a tiny part of the overall system.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
One problem with this is it forms a regressive structure where poor people are priced out while rich people get to keep consuming at whatever rate they can stomach. It would work better and much more fairly if the floating rate was scaled by the net worth of the customer.
That's completely defeating the purpose of the price signal, which is to cause whoever is the most price sensitive to cut usage. By charging less to the people who are most price sensitive, the average price charged in order to deter usage would have to increase dramatically. It also creates ridiculous perverse incentives where people with little money waste electricity in the midst of a shortage because they're not…
Howabout a priority system for how power can be utilized and at what price. Example from highest priority to lowest:
Power plants' internal keep-alive and ignition mechanisms > Hospitals, fire stations, and other emergency services > Housing >>> Corporations
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an argument that feels right. However, you are just shifting first in, for biggest wallet. In large, I confess I am ok with that shift. But it really doesn't help more people. Or more at risk people.
> you are just shifting first in, for biggest wallet Not shifting because there's no supply. The mosquito fleet of entrepreneurs driving in to make a buck selling gas, water, food, supplies, etc., disappeared. Which would you rather do in Texas: watch your house slowly freeze and know you'll have 5 figures in freeze damage while waiting several days for the government to restore power, or buy a generator and a can of…
Honestly, this is such an interesting problem. If one were to assume that price gauging laws for fuels didn't exist one would be allowed to think about how to provide this emergency service in the most effective way possible. Uber could just have a new category for emergency deliveries. The government could also take advantage of this service for emergency relief.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> libertarian fantasy So what do you recommend? Mandatory lights/heaters/AC on/off times, so the power produced is actually used, and the power needed is actually produced? The british have the problem that during a football game half-time, a bunch of people start their tea kettles at the same time, and there is a relatively huge spike in electricity usage... this means, that the electricity providers have to plan fo…
That's why the UK has external sources - both inteconnects with other grids, and stored power - that can be brought up in seconds. My understanding is Texas doesn't even have connections to other grids? Historically the UK had "economy 7" usage, where domestic electricity was cheaper at night. It's not convenient, it stems back from the end of the socialist era of the 70s where individuals took a backseat to the good…
Texas has DC ties to other grids, much like the UK does. The UK also has its own independent grid that isn't synchronized with anyone else, much like Texas (though smaller-scale because UK industry is basically dead and we generally use gas for heating).
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#179This is the market screaming for energy storage. If large negative-price swings, on account of higher power variability, become commonplace it could very elegantly pay for storage. It would also let storage be compared, apples to apples, dollar to dollar, with base load power supplies.
Why can't Texas simply output it's power to neighboring states?
Texas isn't connected to either of the two national power grids (east and west half of lower 48 states, roughly) so that their power system isn't subject to federal regulation.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your job is to establish a stable market between producers and consumers, and the market price you set swings positive and negative, through 6 orders of magnitude in just 72 hour...you are not doing a good job.
It makes perfect sense. When there was not enough power, because generation was frozen, electricity was in demand. Now that those power plants are unfrozen and there is enough power, over-generation is a liability. The real question is does the spot price being able to go to $9,000 produce a useful market signal? Or is it just a pointless hazard to ensnare the unprepared? Normally this kind of question doesn't make s…
>The real question is does the spot price being able to go to $9,000 produce a useful market signal?
If electricity was like gas the pump would refuse to operate since your wallet is too light.