This is the time to shine for all the power plants that bought oil at -$37 back in April.
Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
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Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#12Context: > For wind developers, federal tax credits also are a contributing factor, even allowing the wind resources to make offers at negative prices. However, low and/or negative offers are not limited to any particular resource, and it is not uncommon for thermal generators to submit negative prices to decrease their chances of being dispatched below their desired or capable levels. > ... > Market prices tend to g…
If your job is to establish a stable market between producers and consumers, and the market price you set swings positive and negative, through 6 orders of magnitude in just 72 hour...you are not doing a good job.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#13Context: > For wind developers, federal tax credits also are a contributing factor, even allowing the wind resources to make offers at negative prices. However, low and/or negative offers are not limited to any particular resource, and it is not uncommon for thermal generators to submit negative prices to decrease their chances of being dispatched below their desired or capable levels. > ... > Market prices tend to g…
If your job is to establish a stable market between producers and consumers, and the market price you set swings positive and negative, through 6 orders of magnitude in just 72 hour...you are not doing a good job.
...or, hear me out, this system is far more complex than an armchair specialist from HN can understand from reading a couple of headlines, and the actual experts in this subject matter are doing everything in their power to make the system work as best as they can, balancing a zillion opposing forces.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#14>Error code: 16
>This request was blocked by the security rules
GDPR?
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your job is to establish a stable market between producers and consumers, and the market price you set swings positive and negative, through 6 orders of magnitude in just 72 hour...you are not doing a good job.
...or, hear me out, this system is far more complex than an armchair specialist from HN can understand from reading a couple of headlines, and the actual experts in this subject matter are doing everything in their power to make the system work as best as they can, balancing a zillion opposing forces.
Hmmm... It's almost like solving massive-scale real-life problems is harder than hacking some code together based off medium tutorials
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#16So all these Giddy costumers who had a $10k bill because they were tied to wholesale prices should now turn on the A/C to the max and get paid?
Yes, assuming you're actually linked to the actual spot price. Too much supply means we need to increase demand, so go create demand!
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your job is to establish a stable market between producers and consumers, and the market price you set swings positive and negative, through 6 orders of magnitude in just 72 hour...you are not doing a good job.
...or, hear me out, this system is far more complex than an armchair specialist from HN can understand from reading a couple of headlines, and the actual experts in this subject matter are doing everything in their power to make the system work as best as they can, balancing a zillion opposing forces.
Ah yes, the appeal to authority argument. I can’t have anything valuable to say because I am not an authority.
I am sure running a power grid with thousands of producers and millions of consumers is incredibly complex. Did you know every wind turbine and generator is spinning exactly in sync across the whole grid. I am amazed that it works.
What obviously does not work is the libertarian fantasy of live market pricing for turning generators on and off. What are the chances of rolling blackouts on Monday as oil cracking plants come online to take advantage of free power?
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#18I was not sure I was reading the map correctly, but it is true. If you rushed to get a power plant online because they were begging for power and offering $9k/MWhr, they are now charging you $30. http://www.ercot.com/content/cdr/html/20210220_real_time_spp
I believe that is an accurate description of disincentivizing oversupply. I hate ERCOT.
Why do you hate ERCOT?
I ask because I broadly understand ERCOT to have delivered the lowest prices and the highest reliability over the last decade. A far better outcome than PJM or CALISO.
Last weeks failure was because the natural gas pipeline infrastructure isn't winterized - a separate issue from the structure of the electricity market.
What leads you to a different opinion?
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#19I was not sure I was reading the map correctly, but it is true. If you rushed to get a power plant online because they were begging for power and offering $9k/MWhr, they are now charging you $30. http://www.ercot.com/content/cdr/html/20210220_real_time_spp
I believe that is an accurate description of disincentivizing oversupply. I hate ERCOT.
Unfortunately, storage of electricity is quite difficult; supply and demand therefore need to be balanced at all times. An oversupply (ie, overvoltage or excessive frequency) will damage equipment, so prices go negative to encourage those plants which can go offline quickly to do so; generation stations which take longer to shut down or start up, on the other hand, tend to stay running.
Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65
#20Here's raw table data to look at 15 min spot price per mWh http://www.ercot.com/content/cdr/html/20210220_real_time_spp
Here's overall grid conditions in real-time http://www.ercot.com/content/cdr/html/real_time_system_condi...
You can see the massive excess capacity which is why pricing has gone negative now, total opposite of earlier in the week, grid may fail now from overload instead of brown out.