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United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

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Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#311

Post by kortilla »

azalemeth wrote: post #184
dmoy wrote: post #134

That quoted ground observer. Do they work for the NTSB or something? I am 110% certain that if I saw a plane on fire in the sky, I would not have the presence of mind to remember the term "cloud deck", let alone the rest of those details. Ground observer: "Good sir, I do say that the cloud deck was quite low so I didn't get a good look, but the engine was mildly louder than usual, and possibly had smoke, but perhaps…

It's very likely that they're an AvHerald reader. It's the absolute de facto gold standard website in its field, and sensationalism and drama is not appreciated -- a large chunk of the usual audience are aviation professionals. My dad was a pilot, and I've got some few hours myself. You can bet that if either of us watched this event happen, we'd mentally be documenting it as best as we possibly can, both to try to p…

> aviation originates from a detailed and pedantic paper trail that is written in blood

The saying is “aviation regulations are written in blood” because each new regulation is usually in response to crash. https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/13081/why-do-pe...

You don’t keep a “paper trail written in blood”.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#312

Post by bredren »

throw0101a wrote: post #222
haunter wrote: post #37

Recording of the ATC https://twitter.com/ryancaustin1/status/1363236118657957895?... Video of the flying debris https://twitter.com/jacdecnew/status/1363241028690599938?s=2...

Animated recreation with audio: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-zh7Sebr8 * Via: https://forums.liveatc.net/atcaviation-audio-clips/ual-328-u...

How come the discrete audio on 120.15 was not available?

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#313

Post by marwatk »

anigbrowl wrote: post #280

That second-last photo of the ?cowling? on the ground with no damage to the house or the vehicle is just astonishing.

I thought so too (I live a block away) but it actually did significant damage:

https://v.redd.it/ishfm09j6pi61

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#314

Post by AnthonyMouse »

secfirstmd wrote: post #211
joshuahughes wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian doesn't have a slant? You might want to reconsider that... “the Guardian is seen as Britain’s most left-wing newspaper” https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/0...

I love The Guardian, it's the closest to my views but it most it definitely has a slant. I don't mind that. It's news is newsy and it's commentary is openly left wingish.

> I love The Guardian, it's the closest to my views but it most it definitely has a slant. I don't mind that.

You have to be careful with this though.

Once upon a time people said this and what they meant was essentially selection bias. So they would report all the major stories, but when choosing the minor stories to fill the rest of their space, it would be stories favorable to one side or the other. And the stories they did cover were covered fairly.

The common practice now is purposely misleading people. Omitting key details of a story or selectively quoting people out of context to change the meaning of what they said.

Probably the canonical example of this is when people were protesting the taking down of statues of members of the confederacy. Some but not all of the protestors were neo-nazis. Others make the case that people are more than the worst thing they ever did, or that taking down the statues is an attempt to memory hole what happened.

Trump got in front of a camera and said "very fine people on both sides." In the same interview he makes explicit that he's not talking about the racists and condemns them:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trump...

That quote was widely taken out of context for years to imply that he was calling the racists "very fine people."

It's not the same thing as just choosing which minor stories to cover. It's dishonesty.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#315

Post by perl4ever »

dmoy wrote: post #134

That quoted ground observer. Do they work for the NTSB or something? I am 110% certain that if I saw a plane on fire in the sky, I would not have the presence of mind to remember the term "cloud deck", let alone the rest of those details. Ground observer: "Good sir, I do say that the cloud deck was quite low so I didn't get a good look, but the engine was mildly louder than usual, and possibly had smoke, but perhaps…

>"AAAAAAAAAAAAA PLANE ON FIRE IN THE SKY, RUN!!!"

I grew up about 5 miles from an airport and for many years I had a recurring dream that I was looking out the window at an airliner that looked odd somehow or other, until I realized with growing horror it was going to crash in the back yard.

I never saw anything like it in real life, nor was it ever a concern for me whether I was in a flight path when deciding where to live, but evidently my subconscious had a "to do" list that included "be prepared for planes dropping out of the sky".

Strangely, I didn't have nightmares ever that I can remember about being on a plane in distress. Even though as I got older I got more anxious about flying.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#316

Post by kortilla »

TangoFox wrote: post #299
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is RADAR Controller the senior position and RADAR Associate the junior position? That is, does one normally progress from Associate to Controller? How long does it take to progress from one to the next? Is it common/expected for people in your position to move to different airports?

Radar Controllers and Radar Associates are just staffing positions. Some background information to build on… An Air Traffic Controller's job title when they start out is Air Traffic Control Specialist. An Air Traffic Control Specialist starts out in the AG pay band (Academy Graduate). When that Controller gets certifications, they move up to the D1 pay band (Developmental), then to D2, D3, and when they get all of th…

What expertise is it that ATC folks build up in all of those years of training? Is it knowledge of plane behavior by model, familiarity with the region, radar behavior? Or is the majority of it the less tangible “getting a feel for the flow of traffic to instinctively pick out unusual behavior”?

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#318

Post by TangoFox »

ledauphin wrote: post #282
TangoFox wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Air Traffic Controller at Houston Center, and a regular user of this website. Today I was the Radar Associate controller in the Ocean West sector when that aircraft flew through. The Radar Associate works alongside the Radar Controller, and performs coordinations and other actions to assist the Radar Controller. It is the Radar Controller who talks with the aircraft on frequency. In the Ocean West sector, the…

Actually, one thing I was wondering after I got the alert about the 7700 (via flightradar24) - is there anything I'm missing in terms of a reasonably reliable way to figure out what Center frequency a given airplane is currently communicating on, when not low enough to be talking to Approach? I'm assuming there isn't, because handoffs from departure seem to vary frequencies when I fly.

You would need charts that show the different sector boundaries and their altitude or flight level stratums. Sectors can be combined, so you might be given a different frequency in the same area at different times of the day and/or days of the week.

With Approach, sector boundaries can also change depending on which runway(s) they're landing.

You could potentially call up the facility and ask for copies of the sector charts, but I don't know what kind of response you will get.

Right now due to COVID-19, facility tours are not allowed, otherwise you could see ATC in-person and ask to take a look at their charts then, as well as ask the Controllers any questions, workload-permitting.

The facilities that I've worked at (HCF Center and Houston Center) have been happy to give tours, but they have to be during normal business hours, and you have to be a United States citizen. For a tour, I suggest organizing a group of pilots or others interested in aviation, rather than just going by yourself.

The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily those of the FAA.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#319

Post by [deleted] »

laurent92 wrote: post #214
GekkePrutser wrote: post #135

That's crazy, in the Netherlands today there was another flight that dropped engine parts (much smaller though, they're said to have been turbine blades) that hit cars and people. It was also an airliner (747-400). Considering how rare an occurrence is, it's really weird to have both happen on the exact same day. https://www.airlive.net/breaking-turbine-blades-of-a-boeing-... By the way I'm surprised that fire keeps…

Random = clusters happen. In fact, mathematicians were hired during the Battle of England to estimate whether the Germans were aiming for specific buildings (“why is there a cluster of bombs around this church???” or around some secret offices) or just spreading randomly. Verdict: They weren’t aiming, it was random chance that bombs made some clusters onto some buildings. This is what random looks like: No even distr…

[deleted]

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#320

Post by tialaramex »

secfirstmd wrote: post #211
joshuahughes wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian doesn't have a slant? You might want to reconsider that... “the Guardian is seen as Britain’s most left-wing newspaper” https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/0...

I love The Guardian, it's the closest to my views but it most it definitely has a slant. I don't mind that. It's news is newsy and it's commentary is openly left wingish.

Yup, its nickname ("Grauniad") may be about its historically awful proofreading but it's just as politically off-centre as say the Daily Telegraph ("Torygraph") which gets an explicit accusation of political bias right in the nickname.

Every publication is going to have at least editorial bias in what opinions get written, and what stories are covered, at all or in greater profile.

Private Eye - a famous British satirical magazine - has an entire section ("Street of Shame" referring to Fleet Street) about the worst of this (e.g. newspapers taking long term advertiser money and then conspicuously failing to mention grave problems at the advertised business), but it too has its share of blind spots, most famously it took Wakefield's side on the MMR vaccine claims long after mainstream opinion had shifted to focus on the apparent abuse and profiteering by Wakefield, and even after he was struck off it continued to slow walk any suggestion that its coverage had been wrong or misleading. Its coverage for the present pandemic has been... less than stellar also, except in the sense that it criticises the government for doing a bad job, an open goal sometimes missed at a few of the most right-wing papers.

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