I Miss My Bar • Hacker News Board

Re: I Miss My Bar

#441

Post by leehuffman » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:17 AM UTC

tomcooks wrote: post #439

leehuffman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it's the rural setup where I'm from Nah, it’s almost certainly (at least in this context) your privilege. I should hope that you’d never have your income, overnight, ganked out from under you. Not to mention the dozens of other hard working, honest humans on your payroll. I also hope nobody has the completely disconnected uppity spirit to post paragraphs of text telling you why you’re worthless, as you’re inh…

Do you have any solution other than assuming things about others, their supposed privileges? Do you think the state should give you money or leave you to your enterprise? Do you think that taking things from businesses was some sort of conspiracy plan against business owners or the result of something terrible plus bad management plus decades of no preparation even when the scientific community was proactively warnin…

lol ok bruh... I'll break this down...

> Do you think the state should give you money or leave you to your enterprise?

I haven't taken a dime from any government entity, including the unemployment pool that I 100% qualify for and have spent the last 15 years paying into. I also have ~4 other streams of income, so yeah, leave me to my 'enterprise, I'm good.

> Do you think that taking things from businesses was some sort of conspiracy plan against business owners

No...

> or the result of something terrible

Correct.

> plus bad management

Nah we run an extremely dialed joint that pays all state & federal taxes with all cash components (door cover, tips, etc) on the books. My round of ownership (I'm 1 of 3) dug the place out of ~$100k in debt from prior ownership (primarily to other local vendors, and the IRS) and hard course corrected the place inside 24 months time. I'd argue we're a great example of fantastic management – in this business and plenty of others.

> plus decades of no preparation

I've been in this business for ~5 years, so I can't speak to decades.

> even when the scientific community was proactively warning everyone of this problem?

This is so wildy out of pocket, I can't even respond with anything reasonable.

Are you suggesting that restaurant/bar/venue owners should fall to zero and grind it out on the streets because they weren't accounting for scientific research that presented the possibility of a pandemic that'd stop all economic activity across the globe for 6+ months, and their businesses for 2+ years? Are you high?

> I made myself resistant to THIS specific problem by decades of choices, losses and failures.

Like I said, I'm good. But I also have a responsibility to a payroll of 18+ humans, and I'm not a large enough piece of shit to tell them that I win, they planned poorly, I am superior, and to hit the line at the fuckin' food bank.

> and hopefully won't blame others for that.

Nope but you'll blame the ones drowning as you stomp on their heads and flex on them with your wild time traveling foresight that makes you better than all of them and worthy of watching their lungs take on water with an 'I told you so' attitude. Hope that works out for you, boss.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#442

Post by globular-toast » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

np- wrote: post #279

globular-toast wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. I live in the UK. I literally started my comment saying how different I am to other people and people keep replying about how not everyone is like me. Is reading comprehension really this bad or am I just rubbish at writing? I'm always happy to learn if it's the latter.

Saying you don't "understand" something when it's clearly, obviously understandable with a shred of empathy - especially since you live in the UK and have likely met many people who go to the pub for reasons beyond "reproduction" sounds extremely condescending at best, and malicious at worst. If that wasn't your intention, then yes, I suggest you go back and try to improve your writing style.

Nah, I think the problem is I was talking about me but everyone else think I'm talking about them. I learnt a long time ago to accept that people are the they are. I don't try to analyse people. I just thought you empathetic people would find it interesting to hear how I feel. I guess I was wrong.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#443

Post by 3np » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:54 AM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #440

3np wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...I'm sorry, how's this relevant and what's your point?

You appear to be arguing that restrictions aren’t a problem because in other countries they are worse.

I am not. I am saying some of us can't even invite friends over.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#444

Post by schwartzworld » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

jm__87 wrote: post #185

schwartzworld wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird comment. You think people with families don't miss their social lives? You think it has been easy? People aren't meant to spend so much time together. Not to mention work and full-time child care don't really go together. I'd say if anything, I considered maintaining a social life to be a form of self-care, one I was already struggling to get enough of. > A month or two more and I'm going to be in the 'p…

I think it may be tough to imagine what being alone and isolated for a year does to a person if you are someone who is stuck inside with the same people all day. I would imagine the situation for those with family is very difficult and exhausting... but not suicidal ideation level of difficult, which has been my experience with this extreme social isolation. This is in spite of devoting a lot of time and energy to se…

> Maybe my assumption here is wrong and there are plenty of people out there living with their families who are in as precarious a situation as I currently find myself.

Yes, you are wrong. Everybody I know with little kids is suffering the same social isolation as you. 4 year olds do not count as socializing, especially when all of our kids are also feeling the negative effects of isolation as well.

Besides that, you specifically mentioned doing self-care. It's amazing you have the time and energy to do it. My day starts at 530am (if I'm lucky) and the only time I could work out is after the girls go to bed.

I could think of plenty of ways to get some form of social interaction if I wasn't so stretched. All my single coworkers are playing video games together and doing zoom hangouts. My friends do a poker night and I can't stay up late enough because I'm so worn out by the time it starts. I've barely spoken to anyone besides my wife, who is also being slowly ground into dust, unless you count my weekly one on one with my manager.

I'm not trying to one up anybody. If anything I think that most of us are going through some comparable form of mental anguish. The irony is that Covid keeps us from seeing how other people go through it too

Re: I Miss My Bar

#445

Post by schwartzworld » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

_uwiz wrote: post #126

schwartzworld wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird comment. You think people with families don't miss their social lives? You think it has been easy? People aren't meant to spend so much time together. Not to mention work and full-time child care don't really go together. I'd say if anything, I considered maintaining a social life to be a form of self-care, one I was already struggling to get enough of. > A month or two more and I'm going to be in the 'p…

> Why wait a month or two? Because I have just about enough left in me, and by then, in the UK we will have vaccinated the groups which make up ~99% of preventable mortality. At that point, the moral argument of "go outside and you're putting people at risk" completely falls apart in my view. If there are variants which escape the vaccines, then at that point it's game over since I know I definitely won't be able to…

Honestly, unless we vaccinate everybody in the entire world, it seems that vaccine resistant variants are inevitable.

I don't know what the lockdowns are like in the UK. Are you guys not even allowed to go outside?

Re: I Miss My Bar

#446

Post by schwartzworld » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #362

schwartzworld wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird comment. You think people with families don't miss their social lives? You think it has been easy? People aren't meant to spend so much time together. Not to mention work and full-time child care don't really go together. I'd say if anything, I considered maintaining a social life to be a form of self-care, one I was already struggling to get enough of. > A month or two more and I'm going to be in the 'p…

The parent comment was wrong to assume that people with families aren't also struggling due to dampened social lives - we're all struggling. The people who are isolated by themselves are struggling much more. In prison, the worst punishment you can receive is to be taken away from the all rapists and murderers, and put in solitary confinement. Being stuck in a prison cell with a partner and family probably sounds lik…

People in solitary confinement aren't allowed to go anywhere or speak to anybody. What country has restrictions that keep you from socializing online or calling people on the phone? In most places you have never not been able to interact outdoors or go food shopping.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#447

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #302

mStreamTeam wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not questioning the flattening the curve part. I'm saying the 2 weeks part was gaslighting. What they should have said is "one year or greater to flatten the curve." That would have been honest

I think the error here is perceiving errors from medical authorities as having emotional or manipulative motivations. First masks were unnecessary and hand washing was crucial. Now it’s essentially the reverse. It helps to wash hands of course but we realize it’s less of a vector. Then various governments said it’ll be over by summer. Then various governments said it’ll be a year. No one was attempting to gaslight; t…

Some ruling parties in Europe were aware early last autumn that restrictions would last all the way to the spring at least (and regardless of case numbers and hospitalization), but they never stated that overtly. They preferred to claim that measures were just a short-term, temporary thing, and then when those measures were set to expire, they were just renewed again on ostensibly a short-term basis. This was done because those ruling parties knew that there was massive opposition to long-term lockdowns, and being open and honest with the public could lead to their defeat in the next elections.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#448

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #414

eplanit wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way..." That mentality can actually be helpful, and provided it stays metaphorical, it is called for. We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. We accepted them because we were (rightfully) scared. The facts are that it is now getting under control, and it would be healthy and cathartic to assert normalcy again. We're rig…

> We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. What exactly is "authoritarian" about them? These rules were imposed and enforced[0] under authority granted to the government through democratic processes. And if enough people don't like it, most states have recall/impeachment processes that can allow the citizenry to remove the elected officials and replace them with people who will take a diffe…

> These rules were imposed and enforced under authority granted to the government through democratic processes.

Not in many countries. Courts have overturned some rules, finding that the government did not have authority to impose those rules. For example, in Poland the ruling party ordered that masks be worn in public spaces and that restaurants have to close, but courts have already found that this law was void because the government did not pass a formal state of emergency (which would have enraged the population and cost them the next election).

Similarly, in the Netherlands their curfew was overturned by courts. It was hastily reinstated through parliamentary vote, but this reinstatement is questionable when this curfew appears designed to prevent the ruling coalition’s position from being challenged before the upcoming election. In France, Macron has clearly resorted to harsh anti-COVID measures because they can help stamp out the Yellow Vests movement that was bothering him pre-COVID. Dishonest strategems like this – even if not the most blatant example of an authoritarian state – leave a bad taste in one’s mouth.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#449

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #315

eplanit wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the mood is slowly turning into some sort of "Torches and Pitchforks" way..." That mentality can actually be helpful, and provided it stays metaphorical, it is called for. We're coming up on the one year anniversary of authoritarian rules. We accepted them because we were (rightfully) scared. The facts are that it is now getting under control, and it would be healthy and cathartic to assert normalcy again. We're rig…

What do you think happens if we go back to normal behavior before we have a large fraction of people vaccinated?

The UK roadmap that will be rolled out Monday but was already leaked to the press, calls for social distancing to be maintained for essentially the rest of the year, even after most people are vaccinated. (Restaurants can reopen where you can meet people from another household or two, but no concerts, theatre, clubs, etc.) So, the connection that you mentioned between getting people vaccinated and going back to normal, is no longer what is guiding policymakers in some countries.

Seeing that disingenuous planning on the part of state authorities, I would simply prefer to go back to normal behavior right now, allow young people to have their big social coming-of-age and courtship rituals and open the borders so that Europeans aren’t separated from their fellow Europeans, and simply accept all the deaths that would result in the in-between time.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#450

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #142

LandR wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, the UK, you can be fined for going a walk to a park if it isn't the closest park to your home. Basically if the police want to be arses to you they can ask you where you are going and why you are where you are, if they dont like your answer you can be fined. There was an article in the BBC a while back about two friends that met up for a walk in the country side, they drove to the meetup point. It wasn…

What I think is under discussed is the fact that we allow for all of these social restrictions measurements but yet air travel across all the EU countries is still allowed.

Air travel might be allowed in that flights happen, but the second travelers land they are immediately sent into quarantine in some countries. Poland, for instance, requires 10-day quarantine for anyone flying into the country, even from other EU states. That quarantine is checked by requiring you to install a mandatory phone app and also by sending the police around to your address.

Also, because some EU countries are claiming that crossing their borders is only allowed for essential reasons proven by documentation, the airport in the country of origin will prevent many people from even being able to board the plane in the first place.