Earlier quoted context omitted.
> for the majority of the planet WeChat would like to have a word.
Who uses WeChat outside of PRC and aside from overseas PRC?
That is quite a large aside, though.
WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
271–280 of 303 posts
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Encrypted history should appear fine on Matrix when you log in on a new device - either by gossiping from an old device, or restoring from encrypted key backup if you created one.
"On first log in" means you've never been in the room before with any device.
It really doesn't, we shouldn't be redefining words. I suspect you actually mean sharing of historical room keys with new room members.
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#273I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…
> Is there a word for anti-innovation? “Creative destruction” is often used to describe the phenomenon you’re describing. It can also mean selling off critical components of a working business for more than the business is (currently) worth.
No, I think that's just the regular destruction.
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#274Reality is no one cares about privacy, there isn’t a dollar amount attached to it like with security. So yes people will be outraged when they are told data is collected about them but then they will see the service offered and accept the collection. The only thing this achieved is made a lot of people realize and vocalize to themselves that they don’t care about privacy. I could t even convince my own family to ditc…
People care, but they are also unwilling to make any sacrifice. They would like more privacy, but would also like to continue using the services that steal their privacy. And they would also like to continue to use the for free. When faced with "continue using the thing I like and lose privacy" vs "Pay for a similar solution", they almost always choose the first.
> People care, but they are also unwilling to make any sacrifice.
This is also known as "not caring".
"Oh yeah I really care about you babe, I just can't help you or hang out with you in any way that even slightly inconveniences me."
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#275Honestly, as an engineer, looking at the way FAANG are becoming middle-men in just about every part of human life, I would rather ban all social media and more generally mass communication software outright than try and regulate it. It feels to me like it's gotten to the point where this type of software is doing more harm than good. I know that the software itself is not the issue, the tech has potential to do good,…
A $5 VSP server hosts all the social networking I need and it's owned and controlled by me. I think people overestimate the value that Facebook gives them because of the social graph it holds ransom.
That's a good solution for you. That's not a good solution for 99.9% of the population who have no idea what "ssh" is.
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#276In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished. I then deleted my whatsapp account. There was much wailing and grumpiness and som…
OTOH, one intolerant/militant person can force an entire group to accept their opinion, if the people would rather accept their opinion than abandon contact/friendships with that person.
If you force people to choose between using Signal and no longer being able to talk to you, they will make a choice. That choice could end with you being abandoned or ignored, or with a large group that would rather prefer WhatsApp using Signal, at least for this group.
Especially if it's multiple militant people, this effect can be quite powerful.
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somewhat the same for me, though I'm in a bit later stage than you are. I moved my family to Signal as well, but we all got a bit frustrated with the lack of features. No (good) Chromebook support, no message editing, the HARD requirement on owning a phone (which locked out my kids), no message history or even a way to backup messages, etc. A few weeks ago I spun up a tiny EC2 instance, threw a matrix server on it, a…
How does the Matrix experience compare to Signal, feature-wise? I ran into similar frustrations with Signal's lack of polish in certain areas when trying to move family over. There's something to be said for why WhatsApp is so popular, it feels like the most full-featured and polished communications app.
It's barely tolerable for power users, unacceptable for casual users. In particular, calling doesn't work reliably on Android, no search in encrypted rooms, ...
Signal, on the other hand, is basically a drop-in replacement for WhatsApp. Extremely similar UX, basically the same concepts, phone numbers as identifiers allow you to keep your social network if other contacts migrate.
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#278I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…
What do you mean by that most of us have paid some money for the app? Personally I have never given any money to whatsapp
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#279I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…
It’s so bad that I can’t understand why LINE is only popular in Asia. It has all the good parts of WhatsApp plus a bunch of silly goodies like stickers, open groups, mobile payments, etc. Businesses have “official” accounts that can be
operated by employees as well as bot interactions.
Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Over here (in Belgium and The Netherlands at least) so many neighborhoods have signs promoting local WhatsApp groups, complete with the logo [0]. Often to 'prevent crime'. Local municipalities install and pay for them. It is so awkward to see. [0] https://cdn.nieuws.nl/media/sites/305/2016/05/14195316/Borde...
I was a bit "shocked" by that when I moved to the Netherlands, everyone there uses it and the government seems to have a responsibility in that. Between the signs like you said and the possibility to contact town hall to take an appointment and other government related services via Whatsapp (I can certainly get why people use it, because it's much more convenient that having to make a phone call).
In Ireland it's the same, everyone uses WhatsApp. If I share my number with someone, it would be much stranger for me to receive an SMS from them than a WhatsApp message.
If I phone a tradesman, e.g. a plumber, and they ask for a picture of a job, the photo will be sent using whatsapp.
It's ubiquitous and it's assumed that if you're have a phone you have WhatsApp.
The only people I can think of that don't use it are my wife's grandparents, they use Facebook messenger for that purpose.
Back when people were switching to signal a lot of people cited the fact that signal needed a phone number as a reason not to use it, instead recommending session, threema, matrix.
But if signal didn't tie your account to your phone number there's no way I would have convinced any of my contacts to switch.
Having to exchange username or user IDs wouldn't have cut it, with whatsapp the service is deeply associated with you phone number and that's what people want.