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WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

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221–230 of 303 posts

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#221

I am looking for the Whatsapp chats offline viewer. I would like to store my chats on my laptop and view it without needing Whatsapp on my phone. Currently I know that chats can be viewed (and chat) on web.whatsapp.com, and I found this app https://andreas-mausch.de/whatsapp-viewer/ which makes it possible on Windows (and it seems outdated because of lots of bugs on GitHub). But I would like to view chats on Linux co…

light way, but not available everywhere: export the chats one by one, as per https://faq.whatsapp.com/android/chats/how-to-save-your-chat...

Saves them as text files, copy them off the phone.

hard way: root the phone, copy the database, decrypt it with https://stackpointer.io/security/decrypt-whatsapp-crypt12-da... and the key on the phone. The decrypted db files are overengineered sqlite databases.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#222
post #14

I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…

I started getting messages from Indeed on Whatsapp that I never signed up for. It was tolerable tbh (I'm looking for work) even though their results were shit.

One day they spammed like 20 messages in a row, so I blocked them. If blocking was not allowed, I would just uninstall Whatsapp.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much money is it? I remember WhatsApp being £1/year, or something like that.

Lol people didn't even want to pay that much, it wouldn't ask for that dollar/pound until you'd used it for a year, and most people would ignore the message when it came up Usually it'd just keep working anyways

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#224
post #14

I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…

> They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for anti-innovation? Yes, "capitalism". The problem with capitalism is that despite lofty claims about it spurring on innovation and such, it pretty much does the opposite. I don't imagine that this will be a popular comment on here, but alas, it is how it is. In…

> it pretty much does the opposite. I don't imagine that this will be a popular comment on here

Silicon Valley and HN talk the talk of innovation, but they back monopolists. Time and again you will see this. Peter Thiel argues for this in his "Competition Is For Losers" talk.

The constant theme is this: we want innovation so far as it can bring about abrupt and massive growth and lead to a single company dominating a market. Uber, AirBnb, Facebook, Google, Amazon. These are all businesses backed by VC that are by design monopolies. They create the market and own it. Or, like Uber and AirBnb, they overturn the old order and toss up a wall around it. Profit is at odds with competition.

Once a business reaches a certain size, the organization no longer needs innovation. It's much easier to buy rather than build. Building requires figuring out product-market-fit and it's much cheaper and faster to buy a company that already figured that out.

That's also why you can have a world-class R&D lab like Xerox and see all of your innovations brought to market by outsiders (Apple + Microsoft in the '80s). Your organization is not necessarily equipped to understand how to utilize the innovations it creates. It doesn't understand how to sell or market the inventions. So it doesn't.

> If you truly want innovation, then what you need to do is to take away the personal cost of failure

We already reduce financial risk with bankruptcy laws. Reducing risk is one thing, but if you lean too far into that with VC money you can end up with WeWork or Theranos. Or any of the 2000s dot-com. Businesses that are little more than inflating worthless assets for some fraudulent payoff.

Reducing risk isn't the key. You need skin in the game. But more important, you need people with drive. People that like winning more than they hate losing.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#225
post #218
post #209

Honestly, as an engineer, looking at the way FAANG are becoming middle-men in just about every part of human life, I would rather ban all social media and more generally mass communication software outright than try and regulate it. It feels to me like it's gotten to the point where this type of software is doing more harm than good. I know that the software itself is not the issue, the tech has potential to do good,…

I blame smartphones, the hardware. Without them, social media, the software would be MUCH less invasive.

It does certainly amplify the power of "user engagement optimization".

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the objective on making (more) money. Why have 1bn users and make $1 per user? Isn't it better if then have 200mn users and make $20 per user? For me this 'shedding freeloaders and privacy-oriented-users' helps them more than not. We have discussed pricing and volumes of customers before in this forum, multiple times, and for multiple products/services. Is it better to have 1000 users and make $1 from ea…

> Facebook's obligation is to the shareholders. This is the problem. Businesses must take on additional legal responsibilities and not simply say “we care about profits — at the expense of everything else”. This will require legislation, and perhaps and end to “MBA-culture”, which seems to promote sociopaths to the highest peaks of society.

Maximizing shareholder value was one of the most toxic ideologies of the late 20th century. I've seen more people speaking out against this recently and hopefully this idea gets put to bed like "trickle down" economics.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#227

In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished. I then deleted my whatsapp account. There was much wailing and grumpiness and som…

>I was genuinely surprised that whatsapp had become so sticky Why was this surprising? In general, people are lazy, at least creatures of habit if lazy is too strong. They have an app, it works for them, things in the background where they don't even know exists change that affects them zero, and you fly off the handle and disappear. You're the only person that had issues, and you're trying to buck their system. Just…

you're probably right. i think everyone would have been fine with "crazy uncle brian going off on a tangent," and leaving me be, except i didn't tangent.

when i left facebook i just left and when i left whatsapp i told people about signal two weeks ahead and then just left with that one message.

i think the problem was that i had convinced the patriarch of the group to join me and people wanted to be in contact with him, so the dissatisfaction was directed toward me.

ironically, i was the one who talked down the group from the fearfully dire outlook about social media when we discussed the netflix "documentary" "the social dilemma" a few months back.

i thought the latter part of the documentary that had the predictions of our society being destroyed because of the revelations exposed about what social media is doing to us was cringe and i explained to the group why.

OTOH, i told people "yeah, the first part is totally true and not a revelation. they are absolutely hacking your social biology to get you more engaged in what they have to offer. it's not a surprise to anyone really as the ML systems and technology that optimize for that are well understood and pretty standard. heck, i've even written some of those algorithms myself."

that's actually part of why i left facebook. i realized that i had become complacent about things i should not have become complacent about.

fwiw, my productivity and happiness have increased dramatically since i left facebook/whatsapp. YMMV

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#228
post #148

In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished. I then deleted my whatsapp account. There was much wailing and grumpiness and som…

Somewhat the same for me, though I'm in a bit later stage than you are. I moved my family to Signal as well, but we all got a bit frustrated with the lack of features. No (good) Chromebook support, no message editing, the HARD requirement on owning a phone (which locked out my kids), no message history or even a way to backup messages, etc. A few weeks ago I spun up a tiny EC2 instance, threw a matrix server on it, a…

i love this idea! i think i'll do that as well just to test it out.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#229
post #189
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please refrain to use cheap politic slogans. You are not forced to use Facebook stuff. Use Signal, Threema, Telegram, Discord, Slack, Snapchat, Matrix. Create your own. As much as I don't like Facebook's wechat its not like you are forced to use their application out of obligation or lack of options.

It's not technically forced, but in practice you are often at the mercy of specific apps for many interactions. In many regions, not having Whatsapp or Messenger or WeChat can cause you all sorts of grief and annoyances.

I agree => I'll try to expand?

In the case of WeChat, which from what I heard/read is nowadays deeply rooted in the life of Chinese people (used in China not just to "chat" but as well to perform payments, rate shops and even people, get credit ratings, maybe more), getting rid of something like that would be reaaally hard, even if officially the app is not forced on anybody.

Assuming e.g. that Facebook would create its "Libra"-currency, it would then make it available at least within Whatsapp, and when people would start using it (for any reason) then it would be 1000 times harder to get rid of Whatsapp-the-chat even if it would stomp on all possible individual rights because the "need" to have that whatsapp-payment(&future rating&whatever-method) would be stronger than any potential "future" loss of privacy.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#230
post #72

It's really hard for me to understand why and how something fails or succeeds to grab the public's attention. I've been complaining and refusing to use WhatsApp for years, mostly because it's centralized at the worst possible company. But a boycott of one is not a powerful move and no one cared. Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. I mean, I'm glad they finally do, do…

Over here (in Belgium and The Netherlands at least) so many neighborhoods have signs promoting local WhatsApp groups, complete with the logo [0]. Often to 'prevent crime'. Local municipalities install and pay for them. It is so awkward to see. [0] https://cdn.nieuws.nl/media/sites/305/2016/05/14195316/Borde...

At least the trend seems to have halted for now. These abhorrent signs are completely pointless as a crime prevention device (obviously).

It's free advertising in two ways. One is for Facebook/WhatsApp (the use of these signs further normalizes WhatsApp and strengthens the brand), and the other is as a friendly gesture to criminals: here live people who can't afford fancy alarm systems and private security subscriptions, but can afford plenty of easily stolen devices and other loot.

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