Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

631–640 of 643 posts

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#631

Post by krageon »

jariel wrote: post #606
krageon wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are just like models It is a little ironic that you say they're not required to give sexual favours and say right after that they're just like models, another industry where that is very very common.

But KPop is Korean and corporatised. It's not like 'modelling' or 'acting'. The bands are run by organized machines. Hollywood/Music/Modelling are industries of individuals, sometimes coming together for productions, entire segments of the industry never work in classically professional environments.

Given how fundamentally exploitative the KPop industry is, whether or not the exploitation is also sexual is not particularly important to me personally. The industry is unhealthy for the people that participate in it and it should not exist in it's current form.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#632

Post by foldr »

thu2111 wrote: post #629
foldr wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question was why the OP thought that these particular people are diversity hires. And as I said, the phrase 'diversity hire' is usually used to cast aspersions on people's abilities (though it is possible that the OP didn't want to do this and just made a questionable wording choice).

His entire post is about bad behaviour by employees, and he has just confirmed to you that if you were (visibly) LGBTQ it was impossible not to be hired there. Most likely also impossible to be fired given the OP's stories. That is exactly what you'd expect from a SF based firm that says it's committed to diversity hiring, because that word is code for "anyone who isn't a straight white man". That's why your response…

'SJW' is Godwin 2.0. If you see LGBTQ people as a 'favored class' (!) then I don't think we can go anywhere with this. I'm not avoiding debate with regard to the issue raised in my original response to zxcvbn4038. I'm declining your invitation to have another debate that's been had over and over again many times before.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#633

Post by mensetmanusman »

baby wrote: post #627
mensetmanusman wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countries with the most social media have no gay marriage.

America has no gay mariage ?

Recall that the U.S. is 4% of the world population:

1. China 1,394,015,977

2. India 1,325,349,639

3. US 329,484,123

4. Indonesia 272,856,400

5. Pakistan 233,431,156

6. Nigeria 213,986,428

7. Brazil 212,041,332

8. Bangladesh 162,532,538

9. Russia 142,588,206

10. Mexico 128,840,997

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#634

Post by thu2111 »

krageon wrote: post #571
thu2111 wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think so. That's a 1980s era explanation. There are people who aren't especially attractive in all industries. Even in Hollywood, look at what Weinstein got up to, and he isn't exactly Adonis reborn. I think the explanation is simpler: music and acting jobs are easy. Lots of people can sing, dance, semi-convincingly repeat lines written for them by other people, or even write scripts. It's just not a very…

I'm not sure where to start with this, so I'll start with the broad strokes: You've underestimated the difficulty of creative work (or what is traditionally seen as creative) and overestimated the difficulty of "tech" (which I would argue is also a creative field). If anything, tech is ridiculously easy to get into even if you are patently and demonstrably unskilled. The same is simply not true for other creative wor…

tech is ridiculously easy to get into even if you are patently and demonstrably unskilled

For what definition of "get into tech" is this? Be somewhere in the proximity of a company that calls itself a tech company? Maybe? Be hired as an actual software developer after starting from scratch - this is by no means "ridiculously easy". I've helped people try to break in and they found it extremely hard.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#635

Post by thu2111 »

circlefavshape wrote: post #572
thu2111 wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think so. That's a 1980s era explanation. There are people who aren't especially attractive in all industries. Even in Hollywood, look at what Weinstein got up to, and he isn't exactly Adonis reborn. I think the explanation is simpler: music and acting jobs are easy. Lots of people can sing, dance, semi-convincingly repeat lines written for them by other people, or even write scripts. It's just not a very…

> music and acting jobs are easy. Lots of people can sing, dance, semi-convincingly repeat lines written for them by other people, or even write scripts. Oh please. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I can't speak to acting, but it takes far more than 5 years of study to become a professional dancer or musician (oh and FWIW I've been a professional software dev for 25 years, having lucked into it…

Uh huh, really.

John Lennon formed the Beatles when he was 20, after flunking out of music school, failing his O-Levels and being written off by his teachers. He wrote his first top 10 hit when he was 15, just a year or so after getting his first guitar. The Beatles was formed mostly of his mates, no extensive 5+ year study of music went into any of this.

Naturally talented group, yes, but that is nowhere near the same as requiring years of study to be able to get work in the field at all.

The history of most bands and professional musicians is the same. They're all self taught and it doesn't take years before they can get work. The slogan "learn to code" was deemed a quasi-offensive thing to say to out of work Appalachian coal miners because it implied that anyone can learn to code pretty easily, and that's widely recognised across society as not being true. How many of those coal miners could already sing songs or play musical instruments? Probably quite a few.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#636

Post by krageon »

thu2111 wrote: post #634
krageon wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where to start with this, so I'll start with the broad strokes: You've underestimated the difficulty of creative work (or what is traditionally seen as creative) and overestimated the difficulty of "tech" (which I would argue is also a creative field). If anything, tech is ridiculously easy to get into even if you are patently and demonstrably unskilled. The same is simply not true for other creative wor…

tech is ridiculously easy to get into even if you are patently and demonstrably unskilled For what definition of "get into tech" is this? Be somewhere in the proximity of a company that calls itself a tech company? Maybe? Be hired as an actual software developer after starting from scratch - this is by no means "ridiculously easy". I've helped people try to break in and they found it extremely hard.

> after starting from scratch

I am as always assuming schooling. If you've done no relevant schooling it may be difficult at first, but relatively I'd say it still isn't very difficult when compared to other industries.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#637

Post by jandrese »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #560
jandrese wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market rewarded short term thinking that resulted in lower prices at the expense of much more expensive repairs later. Companies that were properly managed were outcompeted and got bought out by the short term thinking competitor.

Doesn't politics favor short term thinking as well?

Elected officials yes. Civil Servants that don't get swapped out with each administration not so much. People like your county water commissioner.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#638

Post by sanderjd »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #443

It depends on the company. I worked at a large international bank where we had a couple dozen project managers that would travel abroad for 2-6 weeks at a time. We had server set up in a storage closet with a huge porn cache. When the project managers came back to the US we would copy all the porn they had collected to the server, replace the porn on their laptops with new porn from the cache, then send them back abr…

This career trajectory is my nightmare. I would have quit all of those jobs on the spot. To each their own I suppose.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#639

Post by baby »

giantDinosaur wrote: post #628
baby wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that social changes happen when things get really bad for enough people, so minorities are often excluded or it takes a lot of time for them to get their voice heard/change to happen. Do you have a source on a country that legalized gay marriage without social networks? I’m not saying it can’t happen but that would put a dent in my theory. I think Taiwan had it happen before FB but they have what I would…

Netherlands - 2001, Belgium - 2003, Spain, Canada - 2005 Taiwan was very recent - 2019. I'll grant that none of these were before the internet but there's nothing uniquely special about gay marriage that required the internet for organising, a huge amount of activism was done in person, just like in various other civil rights movements in assorted countries pre-internet.

Interesting! Actually, looking at the timeline[1] it looks like these were pretty isolated until 2011 and BOOM, in 2012 you get 13 countries legalizing it, in 2013 you get 35, in 2014 you get 42, the rest is history.

So I might still have a point?

Same thing if you think about the #metoo movement, all it took was a tweet for the world to start moving, whereas it took a woman to kill herself in France in 1944 for women to get the right to vote.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage#Timeline

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#640

Post by baby »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #633
baby wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has no gay mariage ?

Recall that the U.S. is 4% of the world population: 1. China 1,394,015,977 2. India 1,325,349,639 3. US 329,484,123 4. Indonesia 272,856,400 5. Pakistan 233,431,156 6. Nigeria 213,986,428 7. Brazil 212,041,332 8. Bangladesh 162,532,538 9. Russia 142,588,206 10. Mexico 128,840,997

Many of these countries' social medias are heavily controlled by their government + they are developing countries and/or lagging behind in terms of social norm. I'm pretty sure things are changing quite fast for them though!
Post reply on HN