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Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#71

Post by throw_away892 »

roel_v wrote: post #40
habosa wrote: post #10

Really interested to see what this does to Deliveroo. I live in central London on a pretty busy street and it's really wild how many Deliveroo drivers there are. In front of most of the popular takeaway restaurants there are 3-5 drivers waiting at any given time. The increase in delivery and decrease in normal foot traffic during the pandemic has made this really stick out. Deliveroo already totally robs these restau…

I feel really bad for small restaurant owners. These large delivery companies totally take over their internet marketing too, registering a domain like ' - .com' and when you go to that website, you really have to pay attention to see that this is not the 'official' restaurant website and if you order through there, it's costing the restaurant a lot of money that they wouldn't miss out on if you'd order through their…

A customer won't order through 3rd party app if the restaurant doesn't partner to sell through them. Same case for internet marketing.

What you should feel bad about are the excessive commission fees charged by those delivery apps.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#72

Post by M2Ys4U »

aminozuur wrote: post #15

"This is a win-win-win for drivers, passengers and cities. It means Uber now has the correct economic incentives not to oversupply the market with too many vehicles and too many drivers," Doesn't "oversupply" lower the prices for passengers? I myself often check the Uber price, and decide if I want to take it, or use public transport if Uber's too expensive.

>Doesn't "oversupply" lower the prices for passengers?

If oversupply means drivers have to work very long hours to make a living, they're more likely to be tired and thus get in to an accident with me in the car.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#73

Post by nebolo »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #45
austhrow743 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20-30% to not have to have a dining area and be in a trendy location sounds pretty good.

Sure, but you could always do that and be delivery-only without paying anyone. I think the service you're getting here is primarily the exposure of being on a popular platform. That and them handling the order process.

So do it? I really don't see the problem. I get that Deliveroo puts you on their platform even if you don't agree (the apps where I live don't do this), but if that's the case the restaurant is still getting the full price for selling their food. The customer pays the extra 20%.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#74

Post by ricardobayes »

struct wrote: post #8

Link to the actual judgement: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2019-0029-judgme... It’s interesting the level of control that Uber has (i.e. rejecting a driver application based on the make and model of car, renting smartphones to run the app).

I don't think it's bad to have high standards. Taxi companies have much higher standards on cars all around Europe.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#75

Post by foepys »

orlp wrote: post #48
roel_v wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel really bad for small restaurant owners. These large delivery companies totally take over their internet marketing too, registering a domain like ' - .com' and when you go to that website, you really have to pay attention to see that this is not the 'official' restaurant website and if you order through there, it's costing the restaurant a lot of money that they wouldn't miss out on if you'd order through their…

This should be straight up illegal and the companies sued to hell for. If I opened a site claiming to be a bank and accepting money on behalf of that bank, and keeping 20% I'd be behind bars for fraud in no time.

Those delivery services employ many lawyers and bet on the fact that a family owned restaurants doesn't have the guts or money to sue. Truly despicable.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#76

Post by baq »

gpmcadam wrote: post #62

Every Uber driver I speak to tells me how they prefer Uber to their previous job of a cabbie for a firm, they get flexibility, set their own hours and choose when to work Now they’re all permanent employees of Uber will they lose this flexibility? If some drivers weren’t happy with the status quo, why not take their skills and work for another firm?

i'm confident the only thing that needs changing now is uber paying more tax.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#77

Post by Kaze404 »

lovedswain wrote: post #50
mytailorisrich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume this will cause Deliveroo to either increase fees or reduce service which may inspire more restuarants to hire their own delivery people again. Before Deliveroo (and similar services) restaurants (in UK/Europe since you discuss London) did not offer delivery at all. Handling the whole order (which these days means online/through an app) and delivery in-house is costly and restaurants use Deliveroo because…

> Before Deliveroo (and similar services) restaurants did not offer delivery at all. This is far from universally true, especially Asian takeaways typically hired their own driver, but the practice was also commonplace for many actual restaurants too

I'm not in the US but delivery apps are mainstream here as well, and pretty much every restaurant had their own delivery people (we call them motoboys here). Weird to learn that it's not the case everywhere.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#78

Post by simias »

gpmcadam wrote: post #55
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, IR35 legislation (introduction delayed because of covid) would probably designated you as a 'disguised’ employee - ie contracting only to get the tax benefits of working via an intermediary company (less tax, paying yourself as dividends etc). https://www.hiscox.co.uk/business-blog/what-is-ir35-and-what...

Except they would actually have none of the benefits and security of being an employee by choice, so that argument is total tosh if you ask me No holidays, no sick pay, no minimum notice term, no overtime, no bonus, no 20% time, no paid lunches or benefits.

Disguised employees are generally advantageous for the company, not the worker.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#79

Post by tchalla »

austhrow743 wrote: post #24
habosa wrote: post #10

Really interested to see what this does to Deliveroo. I live in central London on a pretty busy street and it's really wild how many Deliveroo drivers there are. In front of most of the popular takeaway restaurants there are 3-5 drivers waiting at any given time. The increase in delivery and decrease in normal foot traffic during the pandemic has made this really stick out. Deliveroo already totally robs these restau…

20-30% to not have to have a dining area and be in a trendy location sounds pretty good.

Only if, both options exist.

Option A - 100% for a dining area at a trendy location

Option B - 80% w/o dining area at a trendy location

There are many cases where people say it is Option B but Option A doesn't exist.

Re: Uber drivers are workers not self employed, Supreme Court rules

#80

Post by vidarh »

ricardobayes wrote: post #74
struct wrote: post #8

Link to the actual judgement: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2019-0029-judgme... It’s interesting the level of control that Uber has (i.e. rejecting a driver application based on the make and model of car, renting smartphones to run the app).

I don't think it's bad to have high standards. Taxi companies have much higher standards on cars all around Europe.

It's not bad at all, but the point is that in the UK, the less control you have, the more likely it is that your relationship to the company you drive for will be considered employment.
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