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I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

m.nautil.us

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Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#621

Post by jm__87 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #208
bostonsre wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assertions that the are made in the article seem like something that should be backed up with studies and not anecdotal evidence from one person (even if he is well respected). It is an incredibly slippery slope for people to walk out on. It would be incredibly hard for someone to say whether or not they will spiral out of control if they try it and the consequences of becoming heavily addicted are life destroyin…

>The assertions that the are made in the article seem like something that should be backed up with studies and not anecdotal evidence from one person (even if he is well respected). Wherw do you think he got these assertions? There have already been studies about how often heroin users are addicts or what the addiction rate of prescription opioids are.

One thing I am curious about with this research is how they would get reliable numbers for high functioning opiate addicts. Addiction is really a spectrum from "no dependence on the drug and no negative life consequences" to "high dependence on the drug and many negative life consequences". I'm sure that many people fall in the middle where they continue to responsibly live their lives while still being dependent on a drug that they may wish to quit, but can't because the withdrawal is too much. I also would not be surprised if many of these people did not seek out help and tried to hide their problem from others due to the major stigma associated with being addicted to opiates, not to mention those who are dependent on opiates but in denial about their dependence.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#622

Post by Barrin92 »

kgwgk wrote: post #323
capableweb wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of the article a bit. Everyone knows Heroin is dangerous and it's iterated on in the article as well. Only responsible and healthy individuals should self-use drugs, generally speaking. Then you can also argue that you might not have lost your friends only because of Heroin the substance, but also how people with heroin addiction is "treated" and frowned upon in society. I think what…

> Only responsible and healthy individuals should self-use drugs, generally speaking. Exposing oneself to developing a heroin addiction seems a somewhat irresponsible and unhealthy thing to do.

Exactly. I always thought of myself as responsible and healthy (and I basically was). I never overused alcohol, never binge-drank etc. I absolutely had no understanding how people could not regulate drug use because I had no problem with it.

A few years ago I had a lot of stress and started drinking to help me sleep. After only a few months I felt kind of agitated without a nightcap. I immediately stopped and now I just don't drink when I'm stressed.

So maybe in one sense I was right about being responsible, but on the other hand it could have very easily become a habit and now I understand how people slowly slide into addiction. It's arrogant to assume anyone knows how they'll respond to a drug as habit forming as heroin.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#623

Post by pedalpete »

I enjoyed this piece as a controversial thought experiment, the "what do you believe that others don't" is strong with this one.

I was struck by the point where he talked about how heroin had made him a better person. The description he gives sounds like meditation and mindfulness would be a better prescription/solution than heroin.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#624

Post by ghego1 »

These kind of articles are truly disappointing. Downplaying how dangerous heroin is is simply criminal, at least morally.

Unfortunately though these kind of positio are made possible by our stand against drugs. Currently nearly all western countries are simply banning all drugs. This war on drugs, however has proven to be ineffective at best. The truth is that the more we fight drugs the more problems we cause.

We should aknowledge that drug use is not the problem, it's a symptom. So instead of prohibiting the drugs, we should be helping those that seek drugs, to cure the underlying problem. If we did that, we could even sell drugs in pharmacies. The point is curing and helping out people, not putting them in jail.

Switzerland has done this for nearly 30 years with great results, we should learn from them.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#625

Post by jackric »

mfer wrote: post #534
jackric wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Safety is the top priority. Don't risk people with drugs traces in their blood; it may degrade their competence. Also don't risk a guy that didn't sleep last night working - his competence will be degraded. I proposed my catch-all solution for this in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26183297 My ideal is we just ensure competence - guy who smoked weed last night may be more competent than…

A lot of this is driven by insurance agencies and data from investigations of events. I don't have insight into that. Insurance companies, these days, tend to be very data driven. It would be great if there was a way to test for competence. Some drugs cause long term issues with decision making and being able to see what's likely to happen. This reminds me of a job I had years ago framing houses. I remember some of t…

Hmm perhaps decree a method/routine to processes like nail gunning. A bit like the Japanese rail staff with their pointing routines.

Film the worksite or send surprise inspectors to catch workers too lazy/reckless about their nail gunning. Maybe show them videos of nail gun injuries!

Improper nailgunning I think is more related to ingrained attitude than ephemeral competence degraders (drugs)

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#626

Post by jackric »

laurent92 wrote: post #596
jackric wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a solution to prevent this, which doesn't prejudice Mike for having a bit of weed 2 weeks ago camping. Also it will filter out those unfit to work from legal medication, or tiredness. Make workers do a 30 second ability test before going on shift. Design the test to measure reaction speed, short term memory, etc. [follow up thought] - Test must be immune to practice/muscle memory. Don't want a drunk passing th…

Serious question: Can we design a test for “getthereitis”? Most often, people would pass the test, but then misjudge and, in the case of Christmas, hurry up to “get there” (hence the name) and underestimate a risk. Ability is 10/10 but judgement is 2/10, and it is hard to verify that their mindset is calm.

Sounds difficult to test for. Thinking about a Pilot I think there would be data points you could measure on the job that predict likelihood of making a bad judgement. For example heart rate variability, cortisol levels, skin moisture.

I think the better solution is to abstract out the judgement into a formula that the pilot must follow, so not courting "gethereitis"

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#627

Post by sharadov »

sibeliuss wrote: post #582
gonehome wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the piece reads like a rationalization by a drug user still in the early stages of a problem. We'll see how things turn out in the end (maybe I'm wrong), but I'm pretty skeptical of a positive outcome.

The fact that he started only 5 years ago is a conspicuous detail -- I keep googling trying to find why he started in the first place, but haven't found that question asked. There seems to be some shadow material expressing itself in the form of a book. I know my own problems, way back when, really got going at around the 5 year mark, and turned from weekend fun to every day need. If I hadn't have met my partner who…

I agree, sometimes it takes a traumatic event to push that recreational use to habitual use. Maybe he's in a good place mentally now, but what if..

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#628

Post by yibg »

joemazerino wrote: post #117

This is legitimately dangerous reporting. Heroin is ranked in the top 3 of addictive chemicals and all this article reports about is this anecdotal nonsense. I've too many friends to Heroin to know the reality of the drug.

Is it just a matter of degrees though? Lots of people have ruined lives (sometimes ended lives) due to alcohol as well. We expect people to use alcohol responsibly, and there is social stigma and other consequences when it's not used responsibly. But we accept that people are free to choose to use alcohol if they want to. Why don't we have the same attitude towards other drugs?

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#629

Post by Natsu »

jackric wrote: post #457
Natsu wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs still affect people during working hours even if used off-duty. I had to mummify a guy's hand because it was sliced open by glass, once. They were airlifted to the hospital because the bleeding couldn't be controlled. Another guy was doing something unsafe with his forklift, probably because he was in a hurry, right before Christmas, it rolled over on him and he died. That's why we couldn't keep people who were…

I have a solution to prevent this, which doesn't prejudice Mike for having a bit of weed 2 weeks ago camping. Also it will filter out those unfit to work from legal medication, or tiredness. Make workers do a 30 second ability test before going on shift. Design the test to measure reaction speed, short term memory, etc. [follow up thought] - Test must be immune to practice/muscle memory. Don't want a drunk passing th…

To start with, drug tests normally only happen:

A) when getting hired B) if you show up to work intoxicated C) after any serious accident

So other than at hiring, which the person can anticipate the timing of, the drug tests are effectively only done after failing such a test to begin with. The average factory doesn't care about hiring people with a record, either, so long as it's not too serious or likely to impact work.

Your test is one of those things that sounds like a good idea until you realize that the people who are needed for some big customer's order are too tired, but still able to work and you don't have anyone to replace them. Rolling the dice on that kind of stuff enough times until a failure happens is what gets factory floors in trouble.

That poor guy just wanted to get home to see his family for Christmas and busted ass to get one more dumpster of trash dumped even if it meant messing with the dumpster while the forklift was on too much of an incline. I don't truly know what he was thinking, but we can make an educated guess that he'd probably done that kind of thing before and doing things the right way took more time and effort than his poor, tired body had left in him at that point.

You don't appear to be aware of all the bad incentives that aren't going anywhere and are advocating something that will cause more people in more factories to roll more dice that will have more injuries. and hoping that the same tired, overworked, short-handed people will make a fuss over these rules instead of rolling the dice as they have so many times before if you just try to warn them or give them tests which they could skip to save 5 minutes they could've been working and then go home that much earlier.

Most of the ways to fix these problems require more staff and/or resources, shorter and more stable shifts, etc. all of which costs more money. Then those labor costs make them less competitive with factories in places like China where they may be trying to compete with literal slave labor in a race to the bottom. The factories already do look at incidents, as well as close calls, but there's only so much you can do when your grand ideas are paired with awful execution thereof.

The best ideas come when you understand their job and help them do things in a better, safer and, ideally, easier way.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#630

Post by Natsu »

jackric wrote: post #626
laurent92 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Can we design a test for “getthereitis”? Most often, people would pass the test, but then misjudge and, in the case of Christmas, hurry up to “get there” (hence the name) and underestimate a risk. Ability is 10/10 but judgement is 2/10, and it is hard to verify that their mindset is calm.

Sounds difficult to test for. Thinking about a Pilot I think there would be data points you could measure on the job that predict likelihood of making a bad judgement. For example heart rate variability, cortisol levels, skin moisture. I think the better solution is to abstract out the judgement into a formula that the pilot must follow, so not courting "gethereitis"

If you're comparing factories to pilots, be aware that factories have a much lower standard of execution for grand ideas.

At least pilots mostly actually do their paperwork and checklists, even if they sometimes fall prey to things like neglecting to land their helicopter when they end up in IFR conditions while, say, transporting Kobe to a game.

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