I wonder how much of this is Nvidia getting pressure from the Gaming industry to do something about it. As far as Nvidia is concerned they are selling as many units as they can produce, so it is a gold rush for them. The gaming industry I am sure is getting concerned that for their new AAA titles already under development which require these high end GPUs, their customers won’t be able to get ahold of them. Or at least will be unwilling to pay the huge markups that the cards are going for.
Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
251–260 of 762 posts
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Who in the holy F are you to tell me what to do with my product? It is the same with hardware video encode, RTX cards are locked up to 2x streams at maximum while they are in most cases capable of many, many more (i.e. Plex transcodes). Not that this is an issue though, since it's a driver lock with a working fix.
Christ I had no idea. I beg to differ, it's a HUGE issue.
Same thing for ECC being disabled on customer GPUs.
And ECC disabled on customer Intel CPUs and AMD Ryzen APUs. (AMD is quite sneaky there, non-Pro CPUs have ECC but non-Pro APUs don’t). Market segmentation is a usual thing on the computer market.
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there's no marginal cost to making another copy Marginal cost is not the only cost. It's disingenuous to treat it as such. It's also incorrect - making a copy for someone to access is most certainly not free. And the economics is sound - partitioning markets allows sales at lower prices to many purchasers. There's simply no way around this, no matter how you feel about it. >That's a pretty clear cut market failure…
> Marginal cost is not the only cost. It's disingenuous to treat it as such. Well, it's a good thing I didn't do that. I just said that the lack of any real marginal cost means that artificial market segmentation for software should be analyzed separately from artificial market segmentation for physical goods. And only one of those two analyses is relevant to this thread. The software stuff you brought up is a red he…
>that artificial market segmentation for software should be analyzed separately from artificial market segmentation for physical goods
This is akin to economic voodoo. There is no reason to do anything different for either one - they are products, customers buy them.
Once you want this artificial split, I guess based on your (incorrect) claim that there is no marginal cost (original claim) or lack of any real marginal cost (backpedaled claim) as the deciding factor, then when do you start to add a continuum of how you analyze based on a continuum of costs?
If there is a marginal cost 3/4 between your two cases, do we now need to interpolate your forms of analysis? All because you personally don't like how markets work?
Or why not simply use the same method, standard economics, to analyze them? And realize all these products have the same benefits to consumers via varied pricing?
>The software stuff you brought up is a red herring.
No, it shows how markets work. That you move your goalposts in the middle of a thread is the fallacious reasoning.
And you've failed to address that segmentation like this allows people to buy that could not have otherwise. Do you dispute that segmentation allows cheaper pricing for some consumers, and in some products, all consumers? Are you arguing for higher prices or just ignoring this empirical fact?
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#254Have nvidia lost their minds? It's going to take days for mining operations to reverse-engineer the driver and undo this. So commercial operations won't be affected at all. Worse, their detection isn't going to be 100% perfect. What if After Effects does something that looks "kind of" like mining. Is it just going to be crippled? What will nvidia do then? Suggest I buy a Quadro for AE support? This will only penalise…
That's for the people who already own the card. If you're in the market for a new card and you have the option of a powerful, purpose-built card that works out of the box or one that needs endless tweaking, few people would choose the more complex option. Especially if it means every new driver that gets released is going to require days to make work properly.
A GeForce will have much more resale value than a mining-specific card once mining becomes unprofitable or the next generation of cards come along
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#255Have nvidia lost their minds? It's going to take days for mining operations to reverse-engineer the driver and undo this. So commercial operations won't be affected at all. Worse, their detection isn't going to be 100% perfect. What if After Effects does something that looks "kind of" like mining. Is it just going to be crippled? What will nvidia do then? Suggest I buy a Quadro for AE support? This will only penalise…
That's for the people who already own the card. If you're in the market for a new card and you have the option of a powerful, purpose-built card that works out of the box or one that needs endless tweaking, few people would choose the more complex option. Especially if it means every new driver that gets released is going to require days to make work properly.
It all depends on availability - if there are no more CMP cards available, but GeForce cards are still around and there's a known good cracked driver for them, this won't even be a question.
Miners don't care about driver updates so it's really a one-off, not endless, once it's running they don't have to touch it.
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#256Is mining a viable investment?
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#257Sounds like it's time to crack some NVIDIA drivers. I already do it for the video encoding limitations, why not this too? Miners are willing to go to some really hacky extremes, reflashing firmwares, custom fan mods, extreme overclock configurations, etc to maximize hashrates and certainly won't care if they have to jump through some hoops to patch a specific version of the Linux driver or enable unsigned drivers on…
Is it even in theory possible to produce silicon that does not perform well on crypto operations while allows 3D to run at full speed? Or do they simply rely on the same underlying operations?
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't surprise me. My 2yo GPU is selling in EU for double the price I originally bought it from the same retailer. Its the first time computer hardware is actually not depreciating but gaining value as it ages.
A year ago I bought a RTX 3070 when I rebuilt my entertainment rig. I replaced a GTX1080 and got rid of it. I should have kept it and resold it. It's crazy and I wish there were two categories of cards. Mining cards and Gaming cards. Looks like NVidia feels the same and is making dedicated cards for the basement farmers.
Maybe you are confusing with the series 20XX? The RTX 3070 were only released a bit more than 4 months ago.
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vast majority of BTC mining is done in facilities that are colocated with hydro dams in China, so the CO2 emission is not what you might expect just hearing the number of KWH being used.
You think China is in the habit of building hydroelectric plants in places where no one needs electricity? Also, a minute with Wikipedia and a calculator will show you that transmission losses for the longest possible straight distance in China are <5%.
I think that the bitcoin mining companies that run in China have a pretty good handle on how to get very low cost electricity, and hydro doesn't produce the CO2 emissions you're so concerned about.
So what's your point?
Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half
#260If NVIDIA feels the need to gimp the upcoming RTX 3060, that suggests that the new CMP cards will not be attractive enough to compete on their own price/merit, or that they will be similarly supply constrained. That said, I'm curious to see how they perform for machine learning.
Of course they won't compete on their own price/merit.
This will be like Quadro: Same chip, a couple of feature flags flipped, then sold at several times the price to price-insensitive market segments.
Nvidia have noticed miners will pay $1000 for an MSRP $500 card, and they want to take a cut without alienating the gaming market too much.