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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#911

Post by HotHotLava »

enos_feedler wrote: post #827
HotHotLava wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds ridiculous because the analogy is really far-fetched. A slightly better one would be that the owner of Walmart is also the mayor of the town, and he won't approve the business permit for the fertilizer store unless they agree to also sell their stuff at Walmart.

In the analogy, Apple is Walmart. Could you explain what it means for Apple to be "mayor of the town"? Apple is not the mayor of any metaphorical town. They own a business.

Walmart is the App Store, Apple is the town, and Epic is the fertilizer company wanting to open a farming supplies store of their own because all the farmers already know them from farming fairs and word of mouth so they don't really need the exposure from being on display in Walmart.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#912

Post by kaba0 »

suifbwish wrote: post #864
kaba0 wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing, there is no such phone. And frankly, there will not be more mobile platforms because even the current two is already much for companies to develop for. Free market doesn’t work that way. Linux phones might rise, but only if they gain a good android compat layer.

Usually whenever I hear someone in business complaining about the free market economy being harsh on startups in a niche it’s because they absolutely suck at marketing and they blame the system for not praising them for existing

You honestly believe someone can just pop up, get some deal with a hardware manufacturer/create their own hardware, create their own OS, and stay afloat as long as people start developing for it? Aaand even after a minimum feature set is achieved it will still be nowhere usable as a mobile phone, because bank N will not make an app for it, you can use facebook on it in the web browser, etc. Goddamn Microsoft failed at it. And as I said there is a reason behind it, the more platform there is, the more every company on Earth has to pay for development of their apps. And that magic number seems to be stuck at 2.

Unless there is a newcomer with crazy good compatibility, nothing will change.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#913

Post by simion314 »

valparaiso wrote: post #799
simion314 wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? on MacBooks you can download and install any applications, including GPL ones for free, no censorship or GPL aversion issues. Because inn your opinion Apple shit stinks less still you should have the freedom to not eat it. so you should have the choice not to use the store

It's not my opinion. It's fact that court doesn't compare open platforms (Windows, Linux Distros, macOS) with closed ones - iOS, Nintendo, Xbox, PlayStation. Please see preliminary hearing video where judge rejected such arguments like yours. Epic lawyers failed very badly.

It does not matter what a judge said in the past when we want to create some new laws, the new laws will invalidate the old stuff.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#914

Post by llukas »

munk-a wrote: post #668
suifbwish wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is if I wanted or cared about that I would get one of those phones. The consumer gets to decide which phone they use and one of the reasons I like the iPhone is actually the difficulty in adding 3rd party crapware. If I needed a phone that I can install stuff on from unverified markets I would get an android and do it completely separately from my iPhone. I like that Apple is an appliance that is what it’s…

I don't accept that - it's leaning into having too much faith in the free market that alternative options must emerge to suit the actual consumer desire. The issue is that we're dealing with an oligopoly where consumers have very little freedom of choice and refusing to use the iStore leaves you with precisely one option. There is a common argument that having such a locked down store is what allowed the device to th…

Field is rigged by ad-tech. Opening it up will mean consumer will be product again and choice pretty irrelevant.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#915

Post by tommilukkarinen »

judge2020 wrote: post #895
tommilukkarinen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% is not just for apps but all digital content like Spotify. Now if we see a future where Apple wins and dominates: everyone creating digital content for a living will pay a 30% tax to Apple. Forever including your grandchildren. Now lets take it a step further and think a world where all services like cleaning are bought with Apple products. Everyone will pay a 30% tax to Apple, forever. The thing is, that we cant…

Netflix has shown that they can make bank[0] even after pulling their subscription from Apple's platform[1]. Your entire comment doesn't really add anything since it's all plain-as-day information - Apple's 30% cut is effectively revenue they get for creating the iOS devices, so yes, as long as they continue to sell product, they're going to continue to require 30% of digital content revenue is pocketed as profit. 0:…

The point is, that it's not a static situation, but can get worse. I don't know what you are doing, but we are a normal SaaS company. The current situation is that we can pretty much avoid problems with Apple and Google like Netflix is doing.

But if FAANG are allowed to go rampant, eventually they will grapple us like they have done for the game industry. And it will not end with us, they will continue to expand their umbrella until there is regulation.

OR - our kids will live in a world where FAANG gets 30% of all transactions and it will look like CP2077. If we don't get regulation, we can all just sell our current businesses and buy FAANG stock.

And I'm not happy with the current situation. I think game industry too deserves to be free of the tax and FAANG administered regulation.

Think about the regulation in the shoes of a business owner. Apple decides if you can make business - they can make a fair sounding rule, but your business is affected by weird chance or by Apple employee mistake. The business you built, the one with all the good intentions and the users in the center, disappears.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#916

Post by ThatPlayer »

ryandrake wrote: post #469
efdee wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no choice being taken away - you don't have a choice at this point - you must use "the" App Store whether you like it or not. Maybe the Apple App Store can get it's shit together and present a less hostile environment so these companies are able/willing to distribute on the Apple App Store again, and then you'll actually have a choice.

In both cases, I as the user, have no choice: 1. Apple wins = I have no choice but to use the app store. 2. Epic wins = I have no choice but to install multiple different app stores to run many different apps.

By that logic I have no choice but to buy an iPhone to run many different apps because they're not available on Android.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#917

Post by enos_feedler »

HotHotLava wrote: post #911
enos_feedler wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the analogy, Apple is Walmart. Could you explain what it means for Apple to be "mayor of the town"? Apple is not the mayor of any metaphorical town. They own a business.

Walmart is the App Store, Apple is the town, and Epic is the fertilizer company wanting to open a farming supplies store of their own because all the farmers already know them from farming fairs and word of mouth so they don't really need the exposure from being on display in Walmart.

I don’t think Apple is the town. A town is something that a user (resident) should feel comfortable staying with their whole life. However, it is perfectly reasonable for a person to pickup a new phone from a different vendor on their next upgrade cycle. Therefore Apple can’t be the town. Apple is Walmart and Samsung is Target and the 100s of other Android devices are other stores.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#918

Post by dijit »

xxs wrote: post #847
dijit wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this.

>if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this. Can you provide some reasoning behind that. What should I like, so I can dislike uPlay in the first place?

Most people seem to be on board with Steam being their preferred distributor. Any alternatives are met with harsh vitriol- especially ones that are for distributing a a single companies property specifically. Such as EAs origin and Ubisoft’s uPlay (now called Ubisoft Connect).

This is common in the gaming community. Full disclosure: I used to work in the studio that developed and maintained uplay.

One of the games I worked on was an epic store exclusive (or, wouldn’t launch on steam) and it was met with harsh criticism for that. Many players outright said that they wouldn’t buy the game if it wasn’t on steam.

Judging by PC sales, they held true to their word.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#919

Post by gwd »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #701
gwd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how did you work out that the amount apple gets paid (30%) is the "correct" amount? The only way to find out is via competition. The "correct" amount is the amount that everybody is happy to pay. If Epic doesn't want to pay 30%, then 30% is too high for them. That's OK -- nobody is forcing them to pay it. The competition you're describing isn't the cost of running the app store ; it's the cost of maintaining the en…

This is one hell of a peak capitalism comment - I already payed tons of money for the richest company in the world, no way I'm bothered them getting that another 30% cut.

Look through my comments and you'll find I'm not some "the free market will magically solve all our problems" ideologue. Monopolies / monopsonies are a thing, and both workers and consumers need to be protected from them. Your attitude would make sense if there were no other smartphones around, and it was "buy an iPhone or go without".

But there are plenty of good smartphones with alternate business models. If you don't like the fact that your apps are more expensive because Apple charges a 30% commission, then buy an Android and install a third-party app store.

I really don't understand the attitude.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#920

Post by bzzzt »

MKinley wrote: post #807
pkulak wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed that if something is possible, your children or grandmother with do it, somehow. I hand out Chromebooks to relatives because of the low support requirements, and yet STILL every time I get one of those things back there are dozens of outright dangerous extensions installed. These are folks who know how to click on the icon for their email and that's it, and yet the garbage finds a way in. It's like tryin…

I agree, and I believe this is in part because it is these kind of people that malware is targeted at. We, the tech savvy, will be smart enough to not do something because we pay attention at permissions or what extensions, programs, tools, etc are doing or want to do. The tech illiterate still do know how to use Google, search for what they want to do, click on the first thing that looks like it will do what they wa…

Tech savvyness and paying attention will not save you when you're bombarded with dark patterns all the time. Even then, I prefer not to be one click away from losing my privacy, money or being bombarded with ads.
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