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Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

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Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#151

Post by dukeofdoom »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #96
dukeofdoom wrote: post #66

So did the windmills freeze or not? Starting to doubt the fact checkers.

Some did, but at least in Texas the ERCOT planners basically assume ~0 wind for some week-long periods in winter and just expected to rely on their natural gas generators. But then when 30 GW of thermal plants went offline for weather reasons (pipeline freezes, priority to heating customers, a faulty sensor on a nuclear plant, etc.), that's what really brought things offline.

I only have electric heating, this Texas disaster made me realize that I need to have gas as a backup. 10k to install a gas furnace. Lower bills, but also the damage done by burt pipes during a power failure in winter, could easily exceed that. Also thinking about all the Tesla owners, stuck in their cold houses not even be able to drive to buy groceries right now in Texas.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#152

Post by sumoboy »

denkmoon wrote: post #10
pkaye wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are not connected, what is driving up the cost?

Demand, Texas isn't the only location experiencing severe cold weather that it isn't prepared for.

This will all repeat itself during the summer for excessive heat.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#153

Post by dwighttk »

notyourwork wrote: post #38
ardy42 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 900/Mwh is 90c per kwh, national average is about 14. Higher cost states are around 20c with Hawaii near 30c. And IIRC, electricity in Hawaii is so expensive because they generate most of it with diesel.

I'm surprised by this. I would have guessed lots of solar there and potentially wind.

Geothermal?

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#154

Post by cma »

lsllc wrote: post #71

I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…

With nuclear we also would need to solve proliferation issues.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#155

Post by zbrozek »

dragonwriter wrote: post #142
Lammy wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't have to be this way :( https://www.energy-net.org/01NUKE/CALIF.HTM "Northern California is the home of the first successful opposition to the promotion and development of commercial nuclear reactors in the U.S. In the 1950's northern and central California's privately owned utility company, PG&E, was planning to be one of the giants in the new field of nuclear energy."

> > In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times. > It didn't have to be this way :( And, it's not! The claimed price is in the ballpark of double the actual price.

Here it is from the horse's mouth: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...

Lowest rate is $0.25/kWh and most usage will land at $0.32/kWh. Or so you'd think reading that PDF.

I divided my total electric bill by my total usage and got $0.44/kWh. There was a lot of usage in tier 2 because I don't live in the cold and dark. I use a computer and refrigerator. The various confusing surcharges and credits make knowing what any given kWh will cost very difficult.

We're getting fleeced.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#156

Post by nine_k »

wlesieutre wrote: post #95
ceejayoz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you can have too much geothermal. Their first plant got knocked offline by the 2018 eruption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puna_Geothermal_Venture There's also this bit: > Additional concerns and opposition to the plant have been raised by Native Hawaiians, who view all forms of volcanic activity as manifestations of the goddess Pele. To the Native Hawaiians who revere Pele, geothermal wells and energy pr…

But no sun or wind gods that we need to worry about?

Probably you don't drill into sun or wind, thus not producingj any unholy disturbance to the relevant deities.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#158

Post by jasonjayr »

lsllc wrote: post #113
rtpg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas-based electrical generation is what are failing right now! They are failing left and right! If 100% was gas there would be more problems, not less. Wind and Solar is pulling above planned generation right now. If you believe your logic, time to go all-in on wind + solar.

Take the North East of the US, there's not enough solar year round, nor is it generally windy enough of the time to generate power for a densely populated region & power hungry growing region. So my logic is go Nuclear, like France. Keep the natural gas for heating (since it's relatively efficient and cleaner than other fossil fuels). Supplement with solar/wind where & when available.

https://www.iso-ne.com/isoexpress/web/charts

North East US is running about 28% nuclear at the time I viewed the fuel mix chart.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#159

Post by m463 »

jedberg wrote: post #2

I need more context. Is that a lot? Is that low? Is it a big change from before? In what direction?

When things were bad in California, I was surprised to find average wholesale electricity cost was $38/mwh (3.8c/kwh) even for PG&E.

This is marked up 10x for the consumer. Texas has a lot of competition and is usually marked up less that 2x.

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