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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#851

Post by Fogest »

summerlight wrote: post #821
elefanten wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except as soon as it becomes a remotely feasible action (with simple instructions) for the general consumer, a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..." If that comes to pass, there will be no highly-gua…

> a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..." In Android, Epic (and probably tens of ISP and carriers) actually tried that strategy and miserably failed.

Exactly, Epic tried to get people to install their Fortnite app on Android via their apk from their website but they ended up just putting it on the appstore because not enough people were doing it. Likely because of the extra work and "scary" warnings Android gives you when you try and do this.

So yeah this method does work to keep people using the more "safe" options while also letting others have more freedom with their device if they desire.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#852

Post by llukas »

echelon wrote: post #760
llukas wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They shouldn't be able to force every company in America to dance to their beat to reach 50% of American consumers. This reason is exactly why I'm paying Apple premium.

You want me to pay 30% just for the opportunity to reach you? And to have to do more work since there are no portable standards? How is this good and not cruel? What a burden on our economy.

We do not need to do business right? I do not want to do business with 99% of companies that want to "reach me".

Can I pick phone from manufacturer with eco-system that takes my wishes into account?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#853

Post by leadingthenet »

fbelzile wrote: post #635
Dracophoenix wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying Nintendo has an artificial monopoly by allowing only allowing Nintendo approved games to be distributed for sales on their consoles. Or TV channels have an artificial monopoly for shows they buy the syndication/distribution rights for. At some point, someone decided to commit to a certain path. Calling the choice "anti-competitive" cheapens the word. >>People who decided to purchase an iPhone with…

You're right that I'd classify those as artificial monopolies. Wouldn't you agree that the world would be a better place if we had less of them? Especially for general computing devices like a phone (unlike gaming consoles and media like your examples). We already know that Apple doesn't need the App Store for iDevices to be a commercial success, just look at the Mac and macOS.

> Wouldn't you agree that the world would be a better place if we had less of them?

No.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#854

Post by paulmd »

vbezhenar wrote: post #746
Dma54rhs wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's depressing that even on hackernews where you expect people want to tinker and have control over their machines there's a probably a majority who are happy with the situation and use the think of my grandma (aka children) using iPhone situation. There could be numerous ways for Apple to let people run their own software or other stores without giving your grandma malware.

It's pretty simple. Apple users don't want to spell it, so I will. They want Apple to have a strong market position, so Apple can dictate their conditions to everyone else. They like the fact that Apple can bend every developer out there including Facebook and Google, because access to Apple users is a luxury. They like the fact that Apple uses its position to benefit Apple users. Of course Apple uses its position to…

Yes, Apple's control increases user privacy (cf permissions on the Google app store, and how flashlight apps used to demand call log access, contact lists, and of course network access to exfiltrate it all back to the mothership).

It's difficult for the HN userset to understand, but a more private, more secure experience is more of a benefit than the ability to install arbitrary unsigned apps.

Most normal users don't care about installing the handful of apps that can't pass Apple certification, and it is in fact probably better that they not be on the platform because there are reasons they're being excluded.

Epic's fight here is to block that user experience from being allowed in the marketplace. There exist "open platforms", people choose Apple because they want curation.

Moreover, Epic is mad because that user experience is winning, there are a significant number of users who prefer curation over the ability to sideload whatever garbage.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#855

Post by wraptile »

count wrote: post #784
jimnotgym wrote: post #754

If a locked down app store is necessary for say safety, perhaps a good analogue is a water utility company. A water company has a monopoly in an area, due to the impractical nature of duplicate infrastructure. However, in return it may be heavily regulated in terms of its safety and pricing. If you have to have a single app store then their prices should be regulated, and crucially there should be proper recourse for…

A better analogue is cars. You can't install anything unapproved by Lexus on a Lexus system. But you can buy a different car, and get different software and apps.

> You can't install anything unapproved by Lexus on a Lexus system

Only as of recently and still rarely. Most cars of the world hardly used original parts for repairs. The whole auto repair industry is based on a bunch of hacks and fixes that are not licensed by holy overlords. Most of car computer AFAIK can be sideloaded and hacked with exception of something like the infamous john deere.

Speaking of which, John Deere has been in the news for this for ages now and maybe it's time to seriously liberate car software as well.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#856

Post by leadingthenet »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #686
minhazm wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably the market has already decided the behavior they want by buying iPhones in the first place. Apple didn't suddenly change their behavior. This is how the app store has always behaved. Everyone had that information available to them prior to making the purchase. How can you be sure that Apple customers don't actually want a walled garden with a single app store that is tightly controlled by Apple? After all if…

And if you didn't like railway cartel back at the time you could have used a horse instead. Wonderful thing about laws is that we can make the companies behave the way we want.

The way YOU want.

I, as an Apple device user, do not want to change Apple’s behaviour. I like ‘em just they way they are.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#857

Post by wyre »

echelon wrote: post #832
leadingthenet wrote: post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, though? Why does everything need to become like Android? Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple? Assimilate or perish. I genuinely think it’s deep seated envy, frankly.

> Why does everything need to become like Android? It's not like Android. It's like computers before iPhone . > Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. Apple makes this hostile to everyone that isn't them. You need design approval to push updates, you can't deploy when you want. You have to pay the 30% tax and use Apple payment rails. Yo…

> Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app.

The only person responsible for your success is you. There are plenty of other things successful startups need besides an iOS app but you’re targeting your anger at Apple instead?

> Apple makes this hostile to everyone that isn't them.

Apple isn’t hostile to its users. Sure, Apple is hostile to developers and it’s understandable to be upset about that.

As an Apple user I appreciate and trust their protection over the OS for this very personal device that goes in my pocket.

I appreciate Apple ID gives me a layer of privacy between me and the developer.

> Would you still have this opinion if history had been different and Microsoft's Windows Phone had taken the place of the iPhone

I have no idea. I’ve never used a Windows phone. If my choice was between Google’s Android and a Windows phone with the same consumer protections that Apple gives me now, yes, I would have a Windows phone.

That said, Apple is successful because they did things that Microsoft wasn’t doing and I find this premise silly.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#858

Post by leadingthenet »

tommyage wrote: post #850
leadingthenet wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good God, just buy an Android. You people act like Apple’s shoving iPhones down your throat.

It is about my family, friends and people from business.

What about them? They’ve made their choice, and you don’t get to impose your values on them.

Believe it or not, people generally buy Apple devices knowing full well they’re entering a walled garden ecosystem. And they’re doing it for that reason specifically, not in spite of it.

You might disagree, and you’re free to make a different choice, because it exists (and is more popular anyway). Everyone wins.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#859

Post by wraptile »

drstewart wrote: post #519
munificent wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you had the choice between: 1. Buy game X from Apple's app store for $39.00. 2. Buy game X from X's own app store for $30.00. Would you install X's app store then? Would you at least want the option of choosing that path?

Except we all know the real option will be to buy game X from X's own app store for $39.00, so the only thing the consumer has gained is extra friction in exchange for the developer pocketing a larger share.

> Except we all know the real option will be to buy game X from X's own app store for $39.00

Why? Epic Store is literally giving games and discount vouchers away so you'd get _on_ they're platform. You somehow imply that there wouldn't be competition between competing services?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#860

Post by ironmagma »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #677
thereddaikon wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you called it sideloading just shows how successful Apple has been in warping people's perception of it over the years. Installing the software you want on your compute device isn't sideloading. Its just installing software. Apple is aberration here not all of the users who just expect to actually own the products they buy.

It's depressing that even on hackernews where you expect people want to tinker and have control over their machines there's a probably a majority who are happy with the situation and use the think of my grandma (aka children) using iPhone situation. There could be numerous ways for Apple to let people run their own software or other stores without giving your grandma malware.

It's less depressing if you think of it as that everything is tradeoffs. There is a cost to everything: a cost to vendor lock-in, and a cost to using a system not properly designed to fit your needs. People are making rational decisions, they are just choosing the path that fits their needs. Note however they are choosing among the available paths. There are always opportunities for new paths (OSes) to come along.
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