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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#251

Post by werber »

mathgorges wrote: post #194
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Boycotts still exist, like the BDS (boycott divest sanction) movement

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#252

Post by enriquto »

nostromo wrote: post #221
csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain

Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all.

Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives the prize condone the killing perpetrated by the winner? Are they vile?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#253

Post by leetcrew »

mgarfias wrote: post #202
mathgorges wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Boycott is me (or you) choosing not to spend your money or do business with a particular entity due to perceived notions about that entity. This cancel culture stuff is about not just "not reading the article and not going to the site", its an active attack against someone that you don't like. A boycott is me saying "buzz feed sux, i won't goto one of t heir urls". Cancelling would be me saying Gina Carano sux, i'm g…

> A boycott is me saying "buzz feed sux, i won't goto one of t heir urls". Cancelling would be me saying Gina Carano sux, i'm gonna call disney over and over until she gets fired.

I guess I'm not sure I see the difference here. complaining about what gina carano says on her twitter is, in a roundabout way, complaining about a disney product. disney didn't fire an actress from one of their popular shows because they got tired of listening to a small group of people complain; they did it because enough people complained that they saw a potential loss in future revenue. this looks a lot like a boycott to me.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#254

Post by jiofih »

virtue3 wrote: post #220
csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

I mean... Judy Garland was... ugh. Here's a pretty tame snippet: "But it was her draconian weight-watch that made Judy the most abused child in the history of American cinema. Judy was put on diet pills from the age of 12. She was not slowed to eat anything that children enjoy. In the bio-pic on Judy we see how she was not allowed to have cake even on her own birthday. Mayer personally kept reminding Judy of how fat…

> who craved to enjoy a burger or sip on a cola

On the other hand, presenting a burger and cola as some kind of innate need for a child also seems off - enjoying a birthday cake, a lemonade or a lasagna are already damning enough...

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#255

Post by BrandoElFollito »

pvarangot wrote: post #236
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #91

I've been working for 25+ years in huge, international, rich companies — at very senior (tech) levels. Plenty of travel, plenty of team building, plenty of dinners and hotels. My wife asked me a few times about the orgies the movies show, and damn it, I must have always been at the wrong parties. It is interesting how this varies by companies and organizations.

I worked for the movie industry only for a couple of years and on very technical low-level roles, almost apprentice level. Think data tech or in color grading and only as a side gig. I also frequented movie festivals. Don't take this personally but I think you were at the wrong parties. Good signs to tell if you are "in" or not: do you know how to get illegal drugs on set? have you ever been to a private event in a h…

I worked in tech companies, this is why I was mentioning how this is different between companies and organizations.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#256

Post by tabtab »

grawprog wrote: post #250
tabtab wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not justifying it, only saying it's not realistic IN PRACTICE. Requiring 24/7 discipline on that doesn't scale. Most men are friggen horny by nature. It's like telling everyone to diet and exercise to not be obese. It doesn't work, half the population over 30 is obese. Or to never gossip. How many will follow that? Realistic advice needs to scale and work in practice. Platitudes without that won't actually fly.

Yeah dude...being horny by nature is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. Yes it is realistic to expect people will not sexually take advantage of others just because they're horny and the other person is dressed in a way that 'taunts' them. It happens all the time. There's millions of horny people out there every day not sexually assaulting people.

BOTH SIDES have a responsibility to reduce the problem. Women shouldn't be given a Get-Out-Of-Taunt-For-Free card.

Re: There's millions of horny people out there every day not sexually assaulting people.

Just because SOME can muster up the discipline doesn't mean everybody can.

It's not about "making excuses", it's about solving problems in a PRACTICAL way. (I replied here because the Reply button is missing for unknown reasons.)

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#257

Post by BrandoElFollito »

g00gler wrote: post #246
pvarangot wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for the movie industry only for a couple of years and on very technical low-level roles, almost apprentice level. Think data tech or in color grading and only as a side gig. I also frequented movie festivals. Don't take this personally but I think you were at the wrong parties. Good signs to tell if you are "in" or not: do you know how to get illegal drugs on set? have you ever been to a private event in a h…

I don't think OP was in the entertainment industry. He has worked with several large companies at a very senior level and has never experienced anything like what is alleged to occur in the entertainment industry.

Yes, thanks for clarifying - I should have highlighted that I worked in tech. This is why I was wondering how life is different between companies (and even organizations within a company).

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#258

Post by spoonjim »

enriquto wrote: post #252
nostromo wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl. Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in r…

> Look at all these vile people applauding this villain Acknowledging the artistic talent of a villain does not make you vile. Not at all. Imagine a clearer example. Imagine that somebody is on a life sentence convicted of a murder that they have commited. Do you think that this person has the right to write a book? Can this book be sent for participation at a literary contest? Can it win? Does the jury that gives th…

Yes, I would applaud such a scumbag and would hope my friends did not either.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#259

Post by AnimalMuppet »

grawprog wrote: post #233
tabtab wrote: post #215

In other words, other "skills" can partly substitute for looks. One generally moans with their eyes closed. One thing that bugs me is that it's often said "men are animals" in that they lack self control. Yet many women wear provocative clothing at work to gain favors. Such women want it both ways: the ability to tease and taunt, but a magic lid on those when they don't want advances. They want to play with fire BUT…

>Don't taunt the hungry tigers in our pants and expect 24/7 self control. I probably shouldn't even bother responding to this comment, but i'm sorry, as a man, yes control your fucking dick. That's the way of it. If you can't control yourself, that's on you, nobody else.

I agree that men should control themselves. They have the moral responsibility to do so.

And yet, we live in a world where not all men do. We live in a world where some men are rapists, and some use intimidation or influence to pressure women into sex. That's their fault, not womens'. But if a woman acts like she lives in a world where that never happens, she is not being very wise. Morally, is it her fault? No, absolutely not. But she still is acting unwisely.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#260

Post by onychomys »

rectang wrote: post #122
onychomys wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a lot less of a problem since so many tech dudes are dudes.

Sadly, that means that the few women in the tech industry experience even more concentrated abuse. Furthermore, there are even fewer people up the tech management food chain than in other industries who appreciate the circumstances of sexual abuse victims.

I mostly meant in a probabilistic sense. It's much more likely that a male VC will be having a meeting with a male startup CEO than a female one (on either end!).
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