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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

bbc.com

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#231

Post by [deleted] »

mathgorges wrote: post #194
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

[deleted]

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#232

Post by manfredo »

mathgorges wrote: post #194
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

A boycott is when consumers protest an organization by refusing to do business with them. Typically this is done to try an effect a change in behavior or policy in said organization.

Cancel culture usually targets an individual. The objective is typically not change in policy, but the ostracism of the target.

E.g. refusing to buy from Nike until they pay better wages to their manufacturing labor is a boycott. Pressuring a company to fire a certain employee because a group doesn't like the political views of said employee is cancel culture.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#233

Post by grawprog »

tabtab wrote: post #215

In other words, other "skills" can partly substitute for looks. One generally moans with their eyes closed. One thing that bugs me is that it's often said "men are animals" in that they lack self control. Yet many women wear provocative clothing at work to gain favors. Such women want it both ways: the ability to tease and taunt, but a magic lid on those when they don't want advances. They want to play with fire BUT…

>Don't taunt the hungry tigers in our pants and expect 24/7 self control.

I probably shouldn't even bother responding to this comment, but i'm sorry, as a man, yes control your fucking dick. That's the way of it. If you can't control yourself, that's on you, nobody else.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#234

Post by jacquesm »

virtue3 wrote: post #220
csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

I mean... Judy Garland was... ugh. Here's a pretty tame snippet: "But it was her draconian weight-watch that made Judy the most abused child in the history of American cinema. Judy was put on diet pills from the age of 12. She was not slowed to eat anything that children enjoy. In the bio-pic on Judy we see how she was not allowed to have cake even on her own birthday. Mayer personally kept reminding Judy of how fat…

Check out children's beauty pageants if you want to see another example of this kind of horror.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#235

Post by selimthegrim »

yardie wrote: post #84

> the Mafia is very much a part of the music industry, I'm not too familiar with the pop side of the music industry. I dipped my toe into the Rap/R&B side of the business building websites for new artists. There were literal gangsters in the recording studios sitting across from me drinking and smoking and they made plans for every aspect of these young girls lives: what and when they could eat, who they could see, w…

So R Kelly just erred by degree?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#236

Post by pvarangot »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #91

I've been working for 25+ years in huge, international, rich companies — at very senior (tech) levels. Plenty of travel, plenty of team building, plenty of dinners and hotels. My wife asked me a few times about the orgies the movies show, and damn it, I must have always been at the wrong parties. It is interesting how this varies by companies and organizations.

I worked for the movie industry only for a couple of years and on very technical low-level roles, almost apprentice level. Think data tech or in color grading and only as a side gig.

I also frequented movie festivals.

Don't take this personally but I think you were at the wrong parties. Good signs to tell if you are "in" or not: do you know how to get illegal drugs on set? have you ever been to a private event in a hotel room or AirBNB before or after a ceremony? have you ever been in the same room with an A list celebrity or actor when they are using an illegal substance?

If the answer to all those is no then yeah it's probably that you are in the wrong parties.

If you've been there and like never witnessed a movie level epic orgy then that's great for you. I know they are not usual on some circles, I've heard Disney and Netflix try to keep their staff on a tight leash. Honestly I wished my experience was more like yours because I liked the industry and it was a little bit of a dream of mine to be more involved with the movie creative process, and one of the reasons I didn't get more into it was that I was not comfortable mixing illegal drugs and orgies with work in the way it was usual.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#237

Post by klyrs »

jimbokun wrote: post #206
mathgorges wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

People getting fired for an allegation that doesn't pan out, but by then their reputation and career are already destroyed. Or comments taken out of context or missing nuance. Or punishment out of proportion to the offense. In the past, boycotts were aimed at corporations. Not buying or consuming a specific product, or protesting that company. Cancel culture is more aimed at individuals. Suing for defamation can be e…

> In the past, boycotts were aimed at corporations. Not buying or consuming a specific product, or protesting that company. Cancel culture is more aimed at individuals.

This isn't remotely new, though. For one very visible example in our industry, Lynn Conway got fired for coming out as transgender. Similarly, Turing was canceled for being gay. Politicians have been getting canceled for marital infidelity for most of my life (and, wow, Trump really modernized the Republican party on that one). Not to mention the McCarthy era, where people got canceled over suspected affiliation with leftists.

There's a huge panic about how cancel culture is destroying the world... but the difference is that people today are getting canceled for exhibiting intolerance and bigotry, instead of getting canceled by the intolerance and bigotry of those in power. And, yes. There are certainly cases where the cancellation is disproportionate to the offense. But compared to Harvey Milk, Martin Luther King, and many many others canceled in the past... there's nothing new here, and historically speaking, this sort of cancellation is pretty soft.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#238

Post by [deleted] »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #187
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

what interests me is: how do people maintain their integrity in such a foul environment? I mean if you can't look yourself in the mirror then how do you keep on creating anything?

I'd have sex with a rich and powerful woman in exchange for millions of dollars and I wouldn't feel the slightest bit of shame.

[deleted]

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#239

Post by MadeThisToReply »

nicolas_t wrote: post #182
texasbigdata wrote: post #101

This is probably the most interesting comment here. Especially (as a moderate to liberal) with the cancelling of Parkor which was deeply troubling. Is anyone speaking publicly and/or thinking deeply on this future of everyone in the value chain being able to deny freedom of speech? Obviously in some cases it's warranted (violence), but in others where the attack is very pointed (heard instances of cloudfare being pet…

Who is Parkor? Tried googling but couldn't find anything about that?

Presumably they meant to write Parler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parler

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#240

Post by mathgorges »

mr-wendel wrote: post #217
mathgorges wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

Great questions, and I applaud your ability to approach a sensitive topic with such open curiosity. Some arguments I'm familiar with around cancel culture are below. My goal isn't to assert them -- just enumerate some of them. People are welcome to reshape them or knock 'em down as they see fit. - The Internet is a global namespace: now you can have people anywhere in the world outraged. What used to be a localized p…

Thanks for this. These sort-of argument catalogue comments are very helpful in these discussions.

And your call out at the bottom is good wisdom :)

Edit: this->these

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