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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#351

Post by justapassenger »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #326
justapassenger wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic of course doesn’t have customers back - it’s most likely more scummy than Apple. Only thing that markets discovered so far, that has somehow customers back is free market and competition (and it’s far from being perfect of course), and they happen to push for it. It’s just a case where customer interested happened to be aligned, even tho companies fight it for profit reasons (as with privacy and Apple - good for…

I totally understand that but from my POV, I don't see Apple losing the App Store's position as a positive for consumers. Let's compare Android's eco-system to iOS's. Android's app ecosystem is terrible IMO, piracy - viruses - cloned apps - and general very low quality apps. I'm a mobile developer (both iOS and Android) and I use both in my daily live. I know some people prefer Android but MANY don't. To me it's VERY…

If Apple would open up to other apps stores I’d most likely stay with theirs, because I also like value they provide.

But that doesn’t mean I agree with them not allowing other people to make a choice. For me 30% for purchases and having heavily curated store is ok, but others it’s not, and they should be allowed to choose.

If Apple store is truly superior, they won’t have problems staying ahead of competition.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#352

Post by EveYoung »

fbelzile wrote: post #266
dleslie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. On the other hand, Apple is acting as a platform owner and demanding that they continue to act as the sole store curator on their platform. I do not see the hypocrisy.

I agree that there's no hypocrisy, but I think Apple is acting consistently as a platform owner in both cases. Yes, iOS users should being made aware of tracking software but it doesn't mean that they should continue being the sole store curator for their platform. We know from past experience that it's commercially viable for platform owners to successfully develop secure operating systems that allow third party dev…

But users already can by an Android or Linux phone instead. It's not like Apple has the monopoly on smartphones.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#353

Post by simion314 »

dkonofalski wrote: post #314
simion314 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will disagree, you can see the entitlement of users that demand the game,movie or payment system must be exactly his preferred one. Though for Valve you can compete with them (but people hate it but I think they don't hate the actual competition but the shitty implementation of the stores and the fact this game launcher most of the time must be run in background ) BUT with Apple you can't compete, they have up to 5…

>BUT with Apple you can't compete, they have up to 50% market share in some countries That statement isn't true no matter how you slice it. Apple's largest competitor is Google so the idea that you can't compete with Apple is nonsense. And what countries does Apple have a 50% market share in?

US, mobile market , ask Apple fanbous about app sales and they will proudly tell you how Apple stores has more sales. Ask same guys about monopoly and they will then count the entire world, count all computers and dumb-phones and pretend Apple is the little guy.

I fucking can't compete with Apple, say I am a bank/store/club and my customers(not Apple ones) want a mobile app, how can I give the 50% of my customer my app without having to pay Apple , if I try to sell something or put a link to a page of mine for buying subscriptions or stuff Apple will demand a cut(I know they were forced to be less greedy lately).

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#354

Post by dubcanada »

stewx wrote: post #335
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

I recently discovered Playnite, an open source PC game library manager. It connects to all the stores and aggregates them in one place. You can also configure your own emulators for older games, etc. I can now view my DOSBox games and Steam/Origin/Epic games in one place. https://playnite.link/

huh, this is super interesting. Thanks for that

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#355

Post by flohofwoe »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

Microsoft, EA and Ubisoft eventually caved in and offer their games also on Steam.

EGS "exclusives" are usually timed exclusives. You wait half a year or so, and get a more stable, better optimized and usually also cheaper version on Steam too. If you want to play an EGS exclusive game immediately, installing EGS isn't a big deal either.

So far, having multiple competing app stores on PC has been a win both for users and developers. Choice is always a good thing.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#356

Post by ocdtrekkie »

babypuncher wrote: post #342
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App store monopolies have not meaningfully hindered this. To your first example: Most malware infections on PCs today are distributed by the Chrome Web Store. (Preventing malicious extensions was Google's excuse for blocking third party install... but since they don't even attempt to control malware they distribute first party, it's hilarious.) If they tell you they have a virus, open their Chrome extensions tab, rem…

App stores do hinder this when they are resonably well moderated. Google makes almost no effort to do this. The extension markets for Firefox and Safari are comparatively malware-free next to the Chrome extension store.

Indeed, the problem is scale. Companies like Google and Apple end up employing cheap, low quality labor to review apps and extensions instead of high quality technical personnel.

Bear in mind, if Google and Apple had to compete in this aspect, it's possible users would actually choose and prefer a third party store with better curation. So they'd have an incentive to improve their review processes.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#357

Post by bezout »

chungus_khan wrote: post #110
dieortin wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you’re forced to download the FB App Store for Facebook apps, the Epic Games store for theirs, the Google App Store for Google applications... It’s not true users who don’t want to side load have zero skin in the game. The entire ecosystem would suffer.

Why hasn't it on Android then?

Maybe the majority of users doesn’t care and uses the Play Store. They probably don’t know about F-droid and co.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#358

Post by flohofwoe »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #343
georgeecollins wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entity that makes Game A has a choice where the app is sold. So, for Example, EA sells games on Origin but also Steam. There are lots of apps that are in many stores. On an iOS device, the entity that makes the app has no choice of what store to be in, they must be in Apple's. That is a monopoly. As many have pointed out, if you only want to get your apps from one store-- like Apple's-- you could chose that. But…

If EA win their fight, I can't really see them offering their app on the Apple App Store. So, really what this is about is choice for the big app-manufacturers, including games. It has nothing to do with user choice at all, and the cost is borne by the user (who has a far shittier user-experience than they do now).

If it makes EA more money, they will absolutely sell their games on other app stores, see Origin vs Steam.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#359

Post by jpttsn »

SCHiM wrote: post #197
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

Wouldn’t Apple just ban you from installing the Porn Store? Or do you think Epic will make them allow any and all alternative app stores?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#360

Post by NorwegianDude »

A lot of people here seems to think that what Apple is doing is fine and that people knew how iOS works when they bought the device.

Neither of those are true for most people. Just reading the comments on HN the last half year clearly shows that people are confused about what Apple demands. If the HN audience is confused then I feel I can safely state that very few people knows what they're getting themselves into when choosing iOS.

Just the fact that you're not allowed by Apple to inform users about the cut Apple takes should be proof enough that Apple don't want users to know how much money Apple is costing them.

And the fact that iOS doesn't have a decent browser also sucks. Also, users don't understand that Chrome isn't Chrome on iOS.

Users have no idea what they're paying for, or that what they're using is being controlled by Apple.

I hope Apple have to open iOS up so this can end.

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