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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#341

Post by simias »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

There are plenty of cross-store games on PC. And even if some games end up being exclusive you might still benefit as a player thanks to the competition. If Epic started offering a very bad user experience game devs would hesitate to publish exclusively through them because they'd fear reduced revenue.

It's also a very good thing for game devs who aren't at the mercy of the whims of a single company. Steam no longer wants to work with you? Go to GOG, Epic or even self-publish.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#342

Post by babypuncher »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #318
judge2020 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be fine: https://patrickspokemonpalace.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ie... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/antivirus-software-...

App store monopolies have not meaningfully hindered this. To your first example: Most malware infections on PCs today are distributed by the Chrome Web Store. (Preventing malicious extensions was Google's excuse for blocking third party install... but since they don't even attempt to control malware they distribute first party, it's hilarious.) If they tell you they have a virus, open their Chrome extensions tab, rem…

App stores do hinder this when they are resonably well moderated. Google makes almost no effort to do this. The extension markets for Firefox and Safari are comparatively malware-free next to the Chrome extension store.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#343

Post by spacedcowboy »

georgeecollins wrote: post #298
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

The entity that makes Game A has a choice where the app is sold. So, for Example, EA sells games on Origin but also Steam. There are lots of apps that are in many stores. On an iOS device, the entity that makes the app has no choice of what store to be in, they must be in Apple's. That is a monopoly. As many have pointed out, if you only want to get your apps from one store-- like Apple's-- you could chose that. But…

If EA win their fight, I can't really see them offering their app on the Apple App Store.

So, really what this is about is choice for the big app-manufacturers, including games. It has nothing to do with user choice at all, and the cost is borne by the user (who has a far shittier user-experience than they do now).

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#344

Post by judge2020 »

StavrosK wrote: post #279
jwagenet wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the choice to not use iOS and not use the Apple App Store. You might not like Apple’s attitude around their operation of the App Store so you don’t use their devices. You might have missed some great apps, but there are still many great alternatives on Android.

So it's either a choice between "not running some specific game/app whose publisher made their own app store" and "not running any iOS app because my only option is to not have an iPhone"? I know which one gives me more choice.

No, your freedom of choice is only one level deep. You can either choose iOS, which includes 'runs only apple-approved software', or choose any other OS which runs other software.

This is basically the right to repair / right to do whatever you want with your device debate. You can't force Apple to program the functionality for running other people's code into iOS, but it's legal if you figure out how. This is exactly what went down in 2010 with Cydia [0] - it's fair use to modify your own device, but that doesn't compel apple to make it easy to do so[1].

0: https://www.wired.com/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

1: https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/07/dmcae...

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#345

Post by pojntfx »

arendtio wrote: post #291

A bit OT, but I still fail to grasp why Apple is allowed to restrict all browsers on iOS to the Safari rendering engine. Microsoft had to pay big because they didn't asked their users properly for alternative browsers, yet Apple doesn't even give other browsers a fair chance to compete on iOS. Consumers suffer because Apple controls about 50% of the mobile market and if Apple decides a certain feature will not be ava…

Absolutely. There should be an EU regulation forcing companies to 1) allow sideloading apps, without any certificate restrictions for things like feature approval (such as having to ask Apple nicely to be able to create a VPN) and 2) allow the user to run any code they want to on their device, including any browser engine. With the EU becoming basically an American software colony since COVID (Zoom, O365) it is about time for a "GDPR of software freedom".

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#346

Post by martimarkov »

lux wrote: post #258
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

Instead of making the split at the app store level, enabling other payment processors within the iOS app store would solve most of these issues without creating a UX nightmare. That said, I wouldn't mind competition at the app store level too.

As iOS user I completely disagree. I love the Apple platform for the simplicity. Every time there is a payment I choose Apple Pay as it's more secure than giving my card away. It uses biometrics, not some static digits stuck with card if you lose it. It's also more or less valid for Google Pay as well.

Having the option to use PayPal, Stripe, some other payment processor increases the stress on the UX and also the attack surface for fraud.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#347

Post by jaegerpicker »

dragonwriter wrote: post #322
jaegerpicker wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pointless statement, does Epic have consumers back? LOL hardly. This lawsuit is about Epic cashing in on Apple's work. No one believes Apple the corp is the defender of the people. Apple is great on privacy compared to all the other options, not because they are good people (they may not be or they may be who knows?) but because it's in their best interest to be. This is about two corp's fighting over their…

> does Epic have consumers back? Of course not. In principal, in a capitalist society, no firm is on the consumers side—all are trying to extract maximum value from the consumer and give back as little as possible in return. But, ideally, this is constrained by robust competition between firms. To the extent Apple exercises a practical monopoly, Epic fighting against their ability to leverage that monopoly to dictate…

Why is that in consumer's interest? This isn't Windows and IE, there are choices available to every consumer. If you compare Android's eco-system vs Apple's, it's clear that Apple is better for consumer's to me. Better quality apps, far less piracy, far less viruses, and safer better payment options. If iOS was the only game in town, I'd 100 percent agree but it's not. There is very little proof that proof that it's going to make the situation better for consumers and quite a bit of evidence that it will make it worse for users that prefer iOS.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#348

Post by DixieDev »

ekianjo wrote: post #252
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

> You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. yes and No. When some games are "exclusives" to a certain store, if you want to play such games you end up having to install every store in existence which is not very consumer friendly. It would be better for stores to have every game possible, just like at the time of good old physical retail. It's not like there were Wallmart exclusive games…

I find the hassle of having multiple game launchers installed to be pretty insignificant. In exchange, developers have more freedom regarding where they're willing to publish, and have the opportunity of exclusive deals that bring in more money and could reasonably be put back into the content of a game.

Also, as players we occasionally get games at much lower costs than normal (sometimes even free), which seems to be a benefit we wouldn't get to the same extent if multiple storefronts weren't competing.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#349

Post by LegitShady »

BrianGragg wrote: post #277
pennaMan wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Apple blessed us with it's ground breaking technology to restrict the software you are allowed to have on your own device we did just fine getting software on our devices using a file system and the internet.

Do you remember the hardware that existed at the time, the GUI, the usability or non usability. There are two systems, IOS or Android. I really respect Apples rules and appreciate them. They stood their ground and prevented Cell Carriers from loading their phone with CRAP ware that is non-removable. Unlike android and any other flavor of phone OS that has existed. IOS when it came out was a true game changer. Its a v…

that has nothing to do with their abusive store policies, and abusive store policies aren't required for the above.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#350

Post by holstvoogd »

Epic needs to sit this one out honestly. They are only doing this because "we didn't get a special deeeeeaaalll :'("

Apple needs to get their head out of their asses and fix this before governments do. I will probably own apple devices for the rest of my life, but this kind of behaviour is damaging in the long run. Look at MSFT.

At least iPhones dont come with a non-removable fortnite installer on the homescreen and 5k google spyware apps..

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