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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#291
A bit OT, but I still fail to grasp why Apple is allowed to restrict all browsers on iOS to the Safari rendering engine. Microsoft had to pay big because they didn't asked their users properly for alternative browsers, yet Apple doesn't even give other browsers a fair chance to compete on iOS.

Consumers suffer because Apple controls about 50% of the mobile market and if Apple decides a certain feature will not be available in Safari (e.g. Push API), no other browser vendor can even offer a solution.

Sounds to me like totally abusing their market position to uphold their anti-competitive behavior.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Apple blessed us with it's ground breaking technology to restrict the software you are allowed to have on your own device we did just fine getting software on our devices using a file system and the internet.

You may have but the rest of the world did so with a lot of hand-wringing and a boatload of viruses, toolbars, malware, and everything else. As someone who has worked in IT and in tech support, I get and agree with what Apple has done.

App store are good, not argument. The inability of side loading beside the store is what is being critisized.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#293

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

> My gaming computer is already filled with like 8 different app stores each completely different then the other and a variety of privacy/security issues on each.

Do you honestly think this is a worse scenario than having to buy all of your apps/games through Microsoft's app store? Can you imagine using macOS without homebrew because everything has to come from Apple's app store? Can you imagine using Ubuntu without apt because everything has to come from the Canonical's software center? Even Android is made slightly more tolerable by the existence of F-Droid.

Being able to use your preferred software manager/store for everything would be nice, but I don't know of any platform that lets you do that. You either have to deal with multiple software managers and use your preferred one as much as possible, or you're stuck with whatever the platform forces on you. I definitely prefer the former.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, there are "Reader" apps that Apple has at 15%, these are video platforms, books and more which Amazon falls under. Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, Dropbox, Audible, Spotify and others also fall under this category. All of this is described clearly in their information. [1] "3.1.3(a) “Reader” Apps: Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, new…

And yet video rental platforms from Google and Disney (Renting Mulan on Disney Plus cost extra) aren't allowed to bypass Apple, whereas Amazon can. Even if there was something very specific about Amazon's implementation that allowed them to bypass the rule—at what point is it fair to acknowledge the rule was specially crafted for Amazon? What if the policy had an exemption for "Companies that begin with 'A' and end w…

Google Movies and Disney+ can be watched on their app though. They are still "reader" apps.

Buying/renting you can go via their site and I bet they prefer that for at least Google. They get all that customer info and no cut needed.

Any previously purchased items are available on the apps it is just in-app purchasing is usually turned off to prevent the iOS 15% cut for "reader" apps. They could have it on and available to use Apple's Appstore to rent/purchase but the in-app purchasing fees apply 15%/30% depending on the content and app classification.

Pretty easy to just purchase online and then watch in the app.

Games will always be 30% most likely because iOS is a gaming platform as well and that matches other gaming store cuts.

Even Tencent was 55% at one point for MyApp, they came down to 30% inline with other markets in 2019. Tencent MyApp is a competitor to Appstore in China, both companies make about $16B on their stores in revenues. If anything Apple/Google/Steam/etc all forced Tencent MyApp to come down to 30% from 55%. So things could be worse. Cuts prior to app stores were in the 60-70% range for gaming which was absurd.

Epic Game store is 12% (was previously 30% but they lowered to compete on price) which Tim Sweeney has said profitability is around 7-8% but they only allow in games that you have a deal with them. They don't allow just any game to be sold which adds lots of additional cost. Apple, Google, Steam etc all allow in any game which is good as long as it meets their ToS. Mobile really opened up gaming markets and that is industry standard now. Apple/Google even forced Steam to open up about 5 years after the mobile stores appeared.

My guess is break even for stores is about 10-15% if you have a more open market for all, part of that is keeping the stores/games secure from malware and payment info protected. That is why Apple was willing to go to 15% for small business and does for "reader" apps. They aren't making a ton of profit on those.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#295
post #32

I'm not excited by the proposition of either party coming out on top. I hope the EU sees the forest for the trees and understands that the situation is a lot more complicated than either party would claim. Apple is acting as a leader in reducing the footprint of general computing hardware; albeit their devices have among the longest service lives, they continue to be further restricted in their operation over time. T…

> Fortnite's primary capital isn't the player's competitive standing, it's the uniqueness of their cosmetic gear. They target the most vulnerable and maleable markets, tweens and children, and ply them with social anxiety;

That does not sound worse than any fashion store.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#296
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this isn't really about "choice", it's about control. If there are exclusives on, for example, an iOS Epic store, your choice isn't really a choice, you have to install it from the Epic store. I'm curious how this will play out in general. Android already allows side-loaded applications, and Epic allowed people to install Fortnite outside of the Play Store and it did poorly, so they begrudgingly added Fortnite…

Who is forcing you to install apps from any store? Are you being held hostage and compelled to install apps against your will? Blink twice for yes, three times for no.

Ohmygod I can't deal this reductionist stance on choice. Software isn't fungible. If you, for example, want to play a specific game, need a specific messenger to talk to your friends, or need a specific app for work like the Adobe suite or Procreate then you have no choice but to go to a store where those apps are available. If Photoshop is only in the Adobe store then you're gonna have to download and use that store if you want it. Having the choice to not use Photoshop isn't the same thing as having the choice about where to buy Photoshop.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#297

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> This isn't the case on Android. I'd argue that it is till the case on Android. Yes, alternate stores are possible, but they are severely handicapped. First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Epic gave up on running their own store on Android due to the difficulties…

>Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update.

Is this true? Did they change the install permission to one time use or something?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#298
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

The entity that makes Game A has a choice where the app is sold. So, for Example, EA sells games on Origin but also Steam. There are lots of apps that are in many stores.

On an iOS device, the entity that makes the app has no choice of what store to be in, they must be in Apple's. That is a monopoly.

As many have pointed out, if you only want to get your apps from one store-- like Apple's-- you could chose that. But currently you can't choose to use another app vendor.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't the case on Android. I'd argue that it is till the case on Android. Yes, alternate stores are possible, but they are severely handicapped. First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Epic gave up on running their own store on Android due to the difficulties…

> First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Don't see how this is necessarily a bad thing. It's a general security notification. > Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Again, how is this a deterrent? How many times a day do you have to accept the new changes? We've already established that the official s…

Arguably the market has already decided the behavior they want by buying iPhones in the first place. Apple didn't suddenly change their behavior. This is how the app store has always behaved. Everyone had that information available to them prior to making the purchase. How can you be sure that Apple customers don't actually want a walled garden with a single app store that is tightly controlled by Apple? After all if they didn't want this they could have purchased one of the numerous other Android offerings.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#300
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have that right, it’s called Android.

Cool, how do I install it on my iPhone? The one I bought with my money?

Visit https://projectsandcastle.org/ and follow the instructions, assuming your hardware meets the current requirements.
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