Live data from Hacker News

Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

paygo.media

71–80 of 840 posts

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#71
post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

For me it was the opposite, i was thinking, wow, this is the guy i would like to be working with. But i'm not the one who fits this description: You need to be able to answer the "what have you done for our users lately" question with "not much but I got promoted" and be happy with that answer to be successful in Corp-Tech.

“What did I do for the customer today” is often in principle not answerable within megacorps. If you’re the person who fixes a new employee’s password issues, you have to do mental gymnastics like “I helped X fix their password, then X created a new Jira ticket for Y, Y helped scope and plan the ticket in Z’s sprint, Z gathered requirements and assigned it to A, A paired with B and they wrote code that removed extraneous serifs from the new widget font, C reviewed their code, D took the new deployment to the mobile team who QA tested it, then E stamped approval on a new rollout of the app, and now users of iOS 13.6.9 who also specifically only use Firefox Focus won’t see extraneous serifs in the font on the widget tab in their account page. Let’s crack the champagne everyone!”

The degree of behemoth incrementalism is so extreme that outside the immediate blast radius of your work, there is no serious, intellectually honest way to connect the dots between your effort and the user. It’s like shipping a rover to Mars. You do a shitload of work and hope several time units later when it actually lands, that your work has some barely perceptible positive contribution to the sum total outcome.

And all this is even worse in companies where it’s not clear to anyone whether the user is the product or the customer. Just imagine that. “How did you help the user today?” should make you freeze like a deer in headlights. Do you mean the ad company who can target Starbucks-drinking soccer moms in Texas better now because of our cool new image filter for posting kid sports pictures? Or do you mean the soccer moms themselves? Or do you mean the NSA we are allowing access to all this data on both the advertiser and the soccer moms? Or do you mean the VCs?

Leaders who say platitudes like “what did you do for the customer” are just extremely arrogant know-nothings. They can use the stick of “the customer always comes first” to indiscriminately beat, shame or fire anyone that they conveniently need to attack, no matter how unrealistic it is to demand this kind of direct customer impact accounting.

Employees aren’t braindead morons who subscribe to your company like a religion. But that is exactly what this type of thinking is meant to induce.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#72
> This counted on the fact that Google had promised us autonomy to continue to act as Waze and we more or less believed them.

Read: The promise wasn't spelled out in the contract. And whoever has experience in organizational politics knows that if it's not put in writing, it effectively wasn't said.

> Distribution - we quickly learned, the hard way, that we could get no distribution from Google. Any idea we had was quickly co-opted by Google Maps.

I know that "hindsight is 20/20", but if you have certain expectations from the purchase, why didn't you put the key items in the contract? This is not some minor loophole that you missed.

---------------

> It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more

I very much doubt this. But:

> or there is a better person out there or just plain old. This neuters managers

So, the guy basically wanted to totally lord over people and be able to fire them essentially at will, or worse. Can't say that I'm very sympathetic here.

---------------

> The only control you have to increase your economic returns are whether you get promoted since that drives your equity and salary payments. ... this breaks the traditional tech model of risk reward.

I thought you wanted people who were focused on the product and what helps users, not on maximizing their already-quite-high compensation?

---------------

> I ... began wearing a corporate persona

Now, this I can very much identify with and commiserate. Of course, for me, I need a corporate persona the moment I'm hired anywhere, since unlike you, I'm not high-up in the hierarchy.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#73
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, how dare they think that they're entitled to hobbies or a life outside of their job? How dare they take a day off because they're not feeling well and want to take care of themselves? FFS.

His point is a job is not UBI, you supposed to contribute in return and adjust your schedule along other workers (aka a 'workday'). I dunno why is that so controversial.

That may apply to yoga class at 11am, but asking for a day off? Come on...

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#74
post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

"I don't believe long hours are a badge of honor but I also believe that we have to do whatever it takes to win, even if its on a weekend."

lmao what a terrible, horrible manager. I would hate working for them, and I would not miss them leaving.

Maybe I'm just playing into their "young people don't want to work" stereotype, but if that's what working means, I don't want to do it with them.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#75
post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

Well he said.

> I don't believe long hours are a badge of honor but I also believe that we have to do whatever it takes to win, even if its on a weekend.

I guess he missed the memo that google had already won.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#76
post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

It is not a fake problem. Of course, working hard all the time is not a badge to be worn and is not by itself an end, but it's also true that SV tech community is filled to the brim with people thinking very highly of themselves when the reality is they don't contribute much. What the author is asking for is that employees take a degree of personal responsibility without needing to give up on a concept of personal life. I come from academia that's rife with no work life balance and it was positively jarring how badly the pendulum swings in the tech world. There's surely a middle ground that is not by any means unreasonable.

Importantly, this is a personal choice. I don't want to be in a team where members don't take personal responsibility, and I am willing to contribute the same. If Google does not allow such a team to operate with its own norms then the author is justified in saying it's not a good fit.

And to be clear, are you seriously saying that any person saying, "what? Sushi again?" Is actually going to have a real empathizable reason for saying so? Honestly Google sounds like it's filled with what can be considered the modern equivalent of upper middle class government administrators of past eras who don't really contribute much, couldn't give a rats ass about much more than what their weekend plans are and what their paycheck is and I will be more than happy that they are happy they don't work with someone like me if that thought process ever came up.

Of course, companies like Google have found a way to factory-fy this system of getting "maybe mediocre but never truly bad" engineers and scale a massive software conglomeration that runs the world. But this is only possible because of massive excesses these companies procure through counterproductive and anticompetitive revenue streams like ads and data aggregation, so in some ways people in HN want to complain about how these big tech companies are evil but at the same time draw heinously enormous paychecks from them and act as if they truly deserve them. That seems to be the problem.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#77
post #52
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no billionaire, but I am an Xoogler and his descriptions of employee entitlement and misaligned incentives are spot on.

I don't believe complaints about covid reductions to perks are unique to tech or well paid jobs however. My father is a slightly above minimum wage factory worker. There was plenty of grumbling in there when they shut down the 50% subsidised canteen with covid too.

Someone earning high six figure salary needs their subsidized food significantly less than someone earning minimum wage.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good article with a lot of solid points, but that section had me rolling my eyes. Sure reads like someone pining for exploitative "startup" culture to get more than what they are paying for out of their employees. If you consistently feel the need to impinge on your employees weekends or PTO, that's a management failure, not an entitled employee problem.

There's also this lovely comment in the "focus" session where he plainly asserted that "privacy has no value to his users".

I think it's important for all the Google bashers out there to note this example of a high profile employee leaving because Google cared too much about privacy (or "noise" as he terms it).

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#79
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, how dare they think that they're entitled to hobbies or a life outside of their job? How dare they take a day off because they're not feeling well and want to take care of themselves? FFS.

His point is a job is not UBI, you supposed to contribute in return and adjust your schedule along other workers (aka a 'workday'). I dunno why is that so controversial.

Have you missed the part where he things that working nights and weekends is expected in a job? "we have to do whatever it takes to win"?

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#80
post #73
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point is a job is not UBI, you supposed to contribute in return and adjust your schedule along other workers (aka a 'workday'). I dunno why is that so controversial.

That may apply to yoga class at 11am, but asking for a day off? Come on...

Days off are certainly fine, as long you give enough notice for your coworkers to plan around your absence. Not counting emergencies of course.
Post reply on HN