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Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

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Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#661

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

I know you don't control who upvotes your comment, but I find it funny this is the top rated comment. It has become a total HN cliché that the top comment is a negative takedown of the tech or startup in question. From Dropbox, to Coinbase, to Ethereum, and now to Bitcoin at 50k. Not refuting anything you're saying here. Just find it amusing to have seen this pattern play out so many times here on HN.

entrepreneur works in blockchain sector and makes millions with no VCs: exists

engineer working at morally dubious ad-retargeting analytics company: "this has no utility whatsoever ($30), I could do that with a database ($7,500)! I'm going to ignore this for entire decades! ($50,000)"

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#662
post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). Honestly what more do most people have? You could work your entire life but even all the earnings and scrimping and saving isn't even be a tiny fraction to what you would have if you had been the one to fulfil the order for the bitcoin pizza and just held. Think a lot…

We used to call them Ponzi schemes. This is the same but in slow motion. People are going to start taking their profits at some point and whoever takes them last will be holding the bag.

Counterpoint: People are going to start getting rid of their dollars at some point, and whoever gets rid of them last will be holding the bag.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#663
post #652
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is deflation and is intentionally avoided by central banks because you don't want people to hoard their money. Hoarded money sits there and does nothing while money that is in banks can be lent out, invested, and be useful.

It's only avoided b/c in traditional economies there is no way to subdivide units of a denomination. (e.g. There is no way to split a penny into thousandths) Cryptocurrencies are purely digital and do not have this limitation. The only limitations are self-imposed by the algorithms themselves. If Bitcoins were the dominate and only currency, people would continue to buy food, clothing, luxury goods etc. b/c they need…

That’s not the only way it’s avoided by fiat currencies. Physical units wear out and are lost (sometimes destroyed deliberately before that point, I don’t know how often); and the banks have rules on the use of fractional reserve banking and similar, which is for practical purposes a time-limited money multiplier, and the multiple of that multiplier depends on the rules: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

Fiat can, most of the time, grow or shrink the money supply as needed for the most stable economic outcome.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#664
post #552
post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

> I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today I agree it will be around in 10 years, but think it will always be highly volatile. Between now and then, I could see it being worth much more and worth much less than today's price.

Hopefully we will see some stabilisation but the current rally will definitely come crashing down. Everyone comparing gold to BTC should take a look at long term gold price charts. Spikey.

https://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_all_data_o_usd_x.p...

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#665
post #208

I believe Bitcoin is the experimental precursor to proper distributed money. For some reason, even though BTC was meant to be "money", it is now being treated as an asset (at a basic level, an asset is something you hold onto, as it produces additional value, unlike money, which tends to devalue if not put to work). It's almost as if the next big idea in distributed money will be around disincentivising "asset" like…

If we're just passing money around, why do we need a separate currency at all? Stablecoins already exist, but they're not popular because all of the speculative value has been removed. Bitcoin's real invention was censorship resistance, by incentivizing distributed miners to arrive at consensus about transactions in a way that no single miner could control. Sadly, that same distributed incentive is responsible for Bi…

Stable coins are incredible for cashing gains when you are unsure of future movements. All without having to transact back into fiat. You can then earn generous interest rates on your stable coins (Uniswap, etc.), far higher than any bank currently offers.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#666
post #434
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, Tesla's Bitcoin purchase does make a lot of sense ... They then announced their Bitcoin purchase with fanfare that drove the price up, marking a quick return on their investment. Tesla is a car manufacturer! It doesn't make any sense at all! At any company that made sense, a CEO would lose his job for gambling $1B of company money in a casino totally unrelated to the company's business interests.

Well, it’s not completely unrelated: bitcoin drives energy consumption, which in turn drives demand for batteries of all shapes, which are a massive part of Tesla’s business plan.

How's that energy consumption drives demand for batteries? Does gas consumption drives demand for spare gas canisters?

IMHO rising energy price is totally not good for Tesla's and other electric car manufacturers. It increases TCO of electric vehicles and companies' cost of support for premium models with free charging access.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#667
post #646
post #208

I believe Bitcoin is the experimental precursor to proper distributed money. For some reason, even though BTC was meant to be "money", it is now being treated as an asset (at a basic level, an asset is something you hold onto, as it produces additional value, unlike money, which tends to devalue if not put to work). It's almost as if the next big idea in distributed money will be around disincentivising "asset" like…

I think the way to discourage hoarding behavior is inflation. Cryptocurrency follows similar models of scarcity like Bitcoin. Some cryptos have tail emission. None of them has any meaningful inflation. I designed Bitflate. It's a cryptocurrency with 7% inflation. The rate is moderately high to make it the opposite of Bitcoin. But it's not too high to cause hyperinflation. Bitflate is a Bitcoin software fork. So there…

Great at discouraging hoarding I'm sure!

But how can this encourage adoption?

Who would want to hold an asset that is designed to lose purchasing power?

If nobody wants to hold it, then nobody wants to get it as payment.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tinker with that by force of mining power and you will destabilize the currency. Maybe they want that, but it would probably end the currency if it was done by force.

> it would probably end the currency if it was done by force Sounds like you’re saying Bitcoin only has value because the PRC allows it to?

> Sounds like you’re saying Bitcoin only has value because the PRC allows it to?

Please learn how the Nakamoto Consensus works and how nodes protect the Bitcoin network while miners are slaves to the network. There's a rich history of this being tested by adversaries.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26089898

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin consumes more electricity than entire countries - more than the Czech Republic for example. It consumes a third (or was it a fifth?) of all the electricity of all data centers in the world. It is by no means insignificant.

If bitcoins price continues to rise, miners will be greatly incentivized to further decrease power costs. I hope this leads to innovation in clean power tech, especially in developing nations.

>If bitcoins price continues to rise, miners will be greatly incentivized to further decrease power costs.

That's not how bitcoin works. The price of bitcoin is the budget you can spend on mining a single coin. If the price is higher, you can afford to run more miners. If the cost of electricity goes down, you can afford to run more miners. If the efficiency goes up, you can afford to run more miners. Running more miners increases the mining difficulty and you are back where you started.

If Bitcoin is worth $50k people will destroy $50k of energy to acquire Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#670
post #649
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That model appears to be nonsense. There’s no “stock to flow” price relationship in economics or investing. The author made it up for their piece, looked at gold, and extrapolated. They say in the piece: > Now contrast Bitcoin's dynamic stock-to-flow with Gold's, who's stock-to-flow of 62 is not likely in increase. As a thought experiment, try to imagine what would happen to the price of gold if were to be halved one…

> That did happen, in 1940! Gold production fell in half for years. And the gold price subsequently fell. Can I see evidence of this? Using this[1] paper and this[2] article I can see gold production by no means halved and gold prices did not fall. [1] https://ies.princeton.edu/pdf/E15.pdf [2] https://www.thebalance.com/gold-price-history-3305646

I was going off this chart. Looking more closely, somewhat less than half but close

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Wo...

However, your first source indicates a drop substantially less than half, so perhaps the chart I looked at is not correct?

For the price I was looking at an inflation adjusted chart. In constant dollars the price seems to have stayed the same. Typing this out I now realized this must have been the gold standard and my comment was completely incorrect on this point re: gold. The price fell in real terms as it was pegged.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Go...

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