Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

cnbc.com

541–550 of 830 posts

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Citing "latent demand" or "induced demand" as counter-evidence to my original statement shows your (mis)understanding of basic economics. Your original statement: >The demand for USD is robust because people need USD to pay taxes and to purchase most goods ...remains an absurdly simplistic explanation of USD demand. I wasn't citing latent demand as a counter example to this explanation - just an illustration of easy…

> remains an absurdly simplistic explanation of USD demand. Are you willing to provide a more sophisticated explanation for USD demand? The biggest thing missing from my explanation is demand as an investment, or foreign demand to hedge risk. Which right now isn't huge, given interest rates are at 0. > just an illustration of easy to intuit scenario where demand responds dynamically to supply Sorry, I was not correct…

>Are you willing to provide a more sophisticated explanation for USD demand? The biggest thing missing from my explanation is demand as an investment, or foreign demand to hedge risk. Which right now isn't huge, given interest rates are at 0.

Not who you're replying to, but I don't think you can have a reasonably complete explanation of USD demand without mentioning the petrodollar system/international dollar trade settlement. And how a number of countries are looking at ways to break out of that. Also, foreign dollar-denominated debt and debt service.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#542
post #470
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid it makes sense if they are hedging bets against a major global economy...

Hedging against what? There are plenty of ways to hedge against inflation risk or currency risk without buying into an asset that can lose 50% or more of its value very quickly (and has, a number of times).

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#543

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

lemming group think? do you have this concept of all crypto proponents as stupid lemmings all following each other not capable of independent, rational thought?

i call a bunch of people serving 1% of the population without question lemmings. to try and falsely frame a legitimate worldwide, grassroots counterculture movement as just a bunch of stupid lemmings betrays your prejudice and makes it hardly surprising that you don't see any value in the space.

i can't believe a bunch of "hackers" shit on the open source, decentralized internet of money. it's a currency created by real hackers for the internet. it is the first of an entirely new asset class that allows any person to be their own bank and has a hard cap on supply. Yes it's slow, but it's also extremely secure and resistant to change.

>it’s often regulated such that it needs to be fully declared (removing the whole anti-gov part)... so fraud becomes harder to tackle

which one is it? cash is the king of fraud and illegal activities anyway: fungible, anonymous, hard to trace. a public immutable database ought to make fraud much easier to weed out in the long run...

>no underlying true value proposition

it has outperformed every other asset in the world over the last decade, maybe you need to look a little closer to understand the value proposition. just because a bunch of bigots decide it has no value proposition doesn't make it true and obviously the market strongly disagrees with this sentiment.

>It also pushes only towards deflation

you mean poor people can have their money appreciate over time instead of having their meager savings robbed by an unseen, man-made market force? you mean people won't be so eager to waste their money on crap that causes pollution and ends up as landfill? i've never really understood the deflation argument, it's a textbook slippery slope.

> removes an important tool that governments have to handle the economy

if the government were truly democratic and benevolent this would be the case. unfortunately we live under a bunch of warmongering kleptocrats who need to be kept in check.

more like an important tool to bail out themselves and their cronies after they fuck up the economy so badly with their corrupt, short-sighted practices.

the people who seem to screech the loudest against cryptos seem to have a massive vested interest in maintaining the status quo. you really can't get how the economy might actually function better for most people if it wasn't serving as a welfare state for the elite?

meanwhile the btc supercomputer keeps producing blocks, just like it has since day one.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My opinion of Bitcoin will change when it stops using more electricity than entire countries, for something Visa can do for comparatively nothing. To be fair, Bitcoin does not do what Visa does. Visa uses trust in existing institutions to accomplish transactions. Bitcoin mining creates trust out of electricity. And trust is a valuable resource, no different than any other form of value creation.

There are plenty of other stores of trust. You could buy index funds or government bonds or any number of other things, and the price will be less volatile than Bitcoin to boot. I know a lot of Bitcoin enthusiasts are skeptical of traditional institutions, but really, if all the world's governments go bankrupt you're going to have bigger problems. Heck, if you must use a cryptocurrency, at least pick one of the newer…

> There are plenty of other stores of trust. You could buy index funds or government bonds or any number of other things, and the price will be less volatile than Bitcoin to boot

The point is Bitcoin created a store of trust sans institutions, one which is capable of being transacted across the internet without trusted third parties.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#545
post #358
post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

Many people on HN who talk down against Bitcoin are indoctrinated into the current ideology. Anything that goes against the current ideology is refuted, ignored, dismissed as fads, bubbles, scams..etc Ideology is a powerful thing and it's hard to break out of it. If you want to learn more about this concept, you should research about Slavoj Zizek's work on ideology. Bitcoin is not just technology, but a multi-faceted…

Imagine using Žižek to argue for Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sound like we're in agreement that it's a pump and dump scheme and not a true investment.

As they say - have fun staying poor. Think about it - if you had invested at any point in Bitcoin before today, you would have made money. But keep on resisting.

You could have said the same thing in December 2017 before it tanked and was lower for 3 years...with no one knowing if it would ever go back up.

And give us one historic example of it being a good time to buy when the recent price chart looks like an exponential growth curve.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#547
post #465
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, Tesla's Bitcoin purchase does make a lot of sense ... They then announced their Bitcoin purchase with fanfare that drove the price up, marking a quick return on their investment. Tesla is a car manufacturer! It doesn't make any sense at all! At any company that made sense, a CEO would lose his job for gambling $1B of company money in a casino totally unrelated to the company's business interests.

Tesla's stock has never been a car manufacturer stock. That's why it has so much short-selling against it. If you value it as a car manufacturer and compare it's (underlying business numbers):(stock price) to anything else, it's insane. "at any company that made sense" is true, to a point. But the point of tesla has been, for a not-insignificant number of people, not meant to make sense. It's faith based. It's cult b…

I don’t view it as faith at all. I view Tesla as a software and technology company that incidentally makes cars. At least, this perspective can start to explain their valuation and the hype. I think Tesla is doing things no else is (was) doing and they have a massive first mover advantage and mind share. The other manufacturers are struggling to keep up, despite the persistent quality issues with Tesla. Tesla is giving people a product they want as early as possible. It comes with some warts, but Tesla figured out early on what people will accept and what people won’t in terms of quality.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forefront of the Bitcoin frenzy isn't even on the blockchain, it's at the exchanges. Hardcore tech people and those who don't (or can't) trust institutions with their Bitcoin will pay the transaction fees to get their money out of exchanges and into their own wallet. The average retail investor, however, doesn't want to be their own bank. They just want in on the price action, while letting the exchange manage th…

“I'm aware of the 21 million maximum BTC cap” Better thought of as a configuration value set by people with most of the mining power, which last time I checked was PRC

Tinker with that by force of mining power and you will destabilize the currency. Maybe they want that, but it would probably end the currency if it was done by force.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#549
For those who are surprised by this:

Bitcoin has shifted in the mind of investors from a currency to an “asset class”. What this means is that to investors it is more like gold than dollars.

Gold’s value is not linked with its usage in the industry or jewelry. Holding gold doesn’t yield interest. its value comes mostly from people scared of devaluation.

While the interest rates are still low and the economy is not doing great, it makes sense to diversify one’s cash in various “refuge” values.

That Bitcoin is becoming a refuge value while its volatility is still insanely high is somewhat weird. It mostly indicates that there are many cash-rich people/companies out there who dont really know what to do with it.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#550
post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every minute, there are thousands of bitcoin transactions happening at dozens of exchanges, and it's happening instantly with very low cost. Because it's off-chain. That's what you're missing here, not everything needs to be on-chain to be valuable. Exchanges and businesses and services can aggregate.

But if it's off chain, why use Bitcoin at all? If you never actually use the blockchain, then you don't really know if those BTC you 'bought' even exist.

It’s still backed by the currency. Kind of like how when you make a stock trade the actual trade isn’t cleared for some time. In this way the blockchain of Bitcoin is simply transparent and easy to follow, if slow and expensive.
Post reply on HN