Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#551

Post by graeme » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:19 AM UTC

guiomie wrote: post #293

azinman2 wrote: post #120

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

When I read a message like this, I conclude that bitcoin has another 10x to go since gold has a 10 trillion market cap. (Preemptively I'm going to say that gold market cap has almost nothing to do with its usage as a commodity, google it) reply

This seems to be flat out false. According to this 78% of gold globally is used in jewelry. Some other portion is used in electronics of industry.

https://goldprice.com/project/facts-about-gold/

There’s no such reserve value for Bitcoin. You can’t look at it or hold it or do anything with it other than as a currency.

I’ve seen widely varying stats estimating gold’s jewelry share but all of them are large.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#552

Post by jb775 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

> I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today

I agree it will be around in 10 years, but think it will always be highly volatile. Between now and then, I could see it being worth much more and worth much less than today's price.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#553

Post by mlyle » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #526

mlyle wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... All being equal, it probably isn't good to build a system of distributed ledger whose entire trustworthiness and participation depends upon "proof of energy usage". Pushing one transaction through Bitcoin effectively uses about half the electricity that a typical US household uses in a month.

Going to need you to walk me through that calculation you came up with.

Bitcoin network uses about 120 TWh of electricity per year. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56012952

It accomplishes about 7 TPS.

120 terawatts * hours / 1 year * 1 second / 7 in kilowatt hours = 543 kilowatts * hours.

Average US household electricity usage is about 877 kWh per month https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3

Of course, increasing Bitcoin prices will likely increase the amount of resources dedicated to mining, too...

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#554

Post by graeme » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

tippytippytango wrote: post #483

azinman2 wrote: post #120

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

Do you really want an answer to that question? Feels more like your are taking the temperature of the top minds of HN to decide if it's cool to like bitcoin yet.

HN loved bitcoin circa 2011 and in the few years after that. Wish I’d paid attention.

As you have made a totally new account you probably weren’t around for this.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#555

Post by mlyle » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

trident5000 wrote: post #525

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the entire Bitcoin blockchain can only support just 7 (yes 7) transactions a second.

Nope. Transactions are pooled in each tx. Theres many signatures in each one.

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/n-payments

Typical value is 680,000 payments/day.

That's 7.9/second.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#556

Post by graeme » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #310

adhoc32 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, a car for example devaluates over time.

Ok. Every investment. Bonds, real estate, stocks, metals. Magic cards probably don't count. The point is that "use BTC as a hedge against inflation" is obviously not a thing since people are chasing 10x growth.

Funnily enough my brother showed me prices for magic cards he sold a few years back. They have surged in value in 2020. The asset price inflation isn’t limited to tech stocks.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#557

Post by graeme » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #269

azinman2 wrote: post #120

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

> but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). I hold because i expect us to continue approaching the game-theoretic attractor. I've held for years and will keep holding. Every year, i see more and more people coming around to my perspective. How many years can you watch the price keep going up before you'll eventually consider that you might be missing something? > We know transactions are slow and expen…

> lightning network obviates this problem

I first heard someone mention this circa 2014. What happened? If anything fewer people try to use bitcoin for transactions since then.

And if the point is to hold and never sell why buy anything with bitcoin?

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#558

Post by fbelzile » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:26 AM UTC

lph wrote: post #425

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The forefront of the Bitcoin frenzy isn't even on the blockchain, it's at the exchanges. Hardcore tech people and those who don't (or can't) trust institutions with their Bitcoin will pay the transaction fees to get their money out of exchanges and into their own wallet. The average retail investor, however, doesn't want to be their own bank. They just want in on the price action, while letting the exchange manage th…

> That said, Tesla's Bitcoin purchase does make a lot of sense ... They then announced their Bitcoin purchase with fanfare that drove the price up, marking a quick return on their investment. Tesla is a car manufacturer! It doesn't make any sense at all! At any company that made sense, a CEO would lose his job for gambling $1B of company money in a casino totally unrelated to the company's business interests.

I'm just guessing here but they might be hedging against future trade restrictions set by China against US companies like Tesla. If another trade war was to happen, people in China might be able to buy a Tesla using Bitcoin vs having to buy a NIO.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#559

Post by WealthVsSurvive » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #183

hawk_ wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's right i wonder the same. a motivated state actor with access to hydroelectric dams, nuclear power and large datacentres can still easily take over the network.

> can still easily take over the network How much compute power and electric would that take?

How many miners are in China?

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#560

Post by dleslie » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

bitexploder wrote: post #548

peteretep wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I'm aware of the 21 million maximum BTC cap” Better thought of as a configuration value set by people with most of the mining power, which last time I checked was PRC

Tinker with that by force of mining power and you will destabilize the currency. Maybe they want that, but it would probably end the currency if it was done by force.

I'd not call it stable as it is now.