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Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

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Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#361

Post by danhak »

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

I agree that Bitcoin is here to stay and has utility. The issues that I have are

1) It is volatile and impossible to value; any price is as reasonable as any other. What is my benchmark here? The amount of USD in circulation? The value of outstanding U.S. Government debt? (if it is indeed going to replace Treasuries as reserve currency / safe haven asset). Can someone more knowledgable than me chime in?

2) Its utility as a currency is inversely proportional to its utility as a speculative instrument. And speculation appears to be 99% of the interest and discussion.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#362

Post by kaetemi »

SamPatt wrote: post #273
trident5000 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average transaction fee is a bit disingenuous. Many people are not even using segwit and thats on them. You can also use lightning at this point in time but people dont know how to do it and wallets have not implemented yet. High fees usually prod people and services to adapt to the current tech to get costs down. I expect this to happen soon as high fees are somewhat recent. Also you can send a 50 cent tx fee an…

Transaction fees are high regardless of using Segwit or not and the Lightning Network is not widely adopted or user friendly at all.

At present time, $5 for a fast transaction with segwit.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#363

Post by aphextron »

r32a_ wrote: post #358
kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

Many people on HN who talk down against Bitcoin are indoctrinated into the current ideology. Anything that goes against the current ideology is refuted, ignored, dismissed as fads, bubbles, scams..etc Ideology is a powerful thing and it's hard to break out of it. If you want to learn more about this concept, you should research about Slavoj Zizek's work on ideology. Bitcoin is not just technology, but a multi-faceted…

>Bitcoin is not just technology, but a multi-faceted ideology founded around cypherpunks ideas, liberty, sovereignty, austrian economic system, free markets.

This is the narrative that people use to make it seem more savory. But it's just about the money. No one cares enough about any of those ideals for them to be a meaningful part of what Bitcoin is. Those ideas have existed forever in the back channels of the web, and are memorialized in the endless plethora of abandoned decentralized technologies that were never profitable. It's money, plain and simple. There's nothing wrong with that, but for whatever reason the crypto community has some kind of chip on their shoulder about hiding the fact that it is just about profit.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#364

Post by rustybelt »

trident5000 wrote: post #330
rspeele wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to current "layer 1" solutions that you anticipate Bitcoin replacing? SWIFT and ACH don't seem to be it. Assuming a generous 3,000 transactions per block Bitcoin can do ~158M a year. ACH does ~25B a year. It's harder to find numbers on SWIFT but it looks like at least 10 million per day, so ~3-4B a year. Let's say I'm running a business. I have day-to-day transactions going through some higher layer…

I wouldnt even make that classification. SWIFT and ACH are not akin to L1 Bitcoin. Theres no way tech illiterate masses are going to physically move their btc on chain. For instance 95% of retail doesnt even move their btc off exchange. Their higher level "settlement" will be different from an institutional provider or exchange settlement where L1 is really used. SWIFT and ACH is used liberally (hence the high tx) be…

So does bitcoin then just become an alternative unit of account in the existing banking system? If so, what's the point? Especially when users have to eventually convert back to their local currency to pay taxes.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#365

Post by incrudible »

adhoc32 wrote: post #340
incrudible wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you hedge against something like inflation, which is relatively constant over a year, by putting your money into a highly speculative risk asset with absolutely insane volatility over that same timeframe? Like many arguments for Bitcoin, this one just doesn't make sense.

The inflation may be constant each year but over the years it accumulates. Check yourself the inflation impact on your savings: https://www.rl360.com/row/tools/inflation-calculator.htm With inflation rate 2% after 25 years you lose about 40% of your savings value.

I'm fully aware of that, but there's many financial instruments to hedge against inflation. To that end, I'd sooner put my money into Rolex watches or sneakers than cryptocurrency.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#366

Post by trident5000 »

urda wrote: post #354
giantandroids wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are often arguments (with merit) over Bitcoins wasteful use of energy, but I expect a lot of it is from hindight of 'why the hell did I not buy some'.

It's factually a horrific waste of energy. People pointing that out are not looking back in "hindsight", but are actually concerned with the damages it is doing to our planet.

If its so bad then why does Elon Musk himself believe in BTC? - mr green man. Its obviously hyperbole and one dimensional thinking.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#367

Post by Clewza313 »

abiogenesis wrote: post #171
TeeWEE wrote: post #73

Bitcoin itself has its value, but the current price surge is a bubble, it can be easily explained why the growth is exponential: 1. BTC price increases 4. There is media attention about the price raise 5. More people buy BTC, because FOMO 6. Back to point 1, but now a bigger group This loop is a pump, increasing the price as long as the loop isn't broken. The same pump can reverse, very quickly. Once the loop is pump…

The "price" of two coins in terms of fiat currency is not comparable. It depends on the total supply. The current total supply of ETH is ~120M vs BTC's 21M. If ETH was limited to, say, a total supply of 1000 coins the price would be astronomical. Also ETH doesn't have an upper limit to the total supply, therefore its scarcity is not the same as BTC.

So if there was a cryptocurrency with only one coin, the value of that coin would be even more astronomical, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneCoin

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#368

Post by tuesdayrain »

xwolfi wrote: post #347
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). I hold because i expect us to continue approaching the game-theoretic attractor. I've held for years and will keep holding. Every year, i see more and more people coming around to my perspective. How many years can you watch the price keep going up before you'll eventually consider that you might be missing something? > We know transactions are slow and expen…

How many years can I watch you scam people with get rich quick arguments "invest now, it can only go up"? Forever. Make your money the way you want, but I wont participate in something I have no chance to control.

>Make your money the way you want, but I wont participate in something I have no chance to control.

Sounds like you should avoid effectively any form of investing according to this principle.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#370

Post by Clewza313 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #261
mrfusion wrote: post #234

Why is it so popular compared to other coins?

It was the first of its kind. And it does not have any major flaws.

Aside from, y'know, being way too slow & expensive to function as its originally stated goal of being decentralized currency.
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