Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#351

Post by whelming_wave » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:46 AM UTC

giantandroids wrote: post #343

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

There are often arguments (with merit) over Bitcoins wasteful use of energy, but I expect a lot of it is from hindight of 'why the hell did I not buy some'.

One can think both that it's a shame they aren't rich because of Bitcoin and that it's a horrific waste of energy, I don't think one really takes away from the other.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#352

Post by kerng » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

giantandroids wrote: post #343

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

There are often arguments (with merit) over Bitcoins wasteful use of energy, but I expect a lot of it is from hindight of 'why the hell did I not buy some'.

The energy usage (and its side effects to the environment) seems like a problematic and valid aspect, and it seems that is the price to pay to have truly permissionless, decentralized system (proof of work).

But I imagine there is also a lot of opportunity for innovation in that realm to move to clean solutions for instance.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#353

Post by trident5000 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

giantandroids wrote: post #343

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

There are often arguments (with merit) over Bitcoins wasteful use of energy, but I expect a lot of it is from hindight of 'why the hell did I not buy some'.

Just virtue signaling. If bitcoin replaces gold it would be a net win for the environment. And btc uses mostly renewables and excess energy. Also there are many other random applications that use more energy than btc like HFT, gaming, video rendering, but we dont persecute individual liberty, expression, or advancement. A society moving forward simply takes more energy. The solution is to tackle the entire energy space, not persecute energy users which is a band-aid "solution" and counter to a progressive society.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#354

Post by urda » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

giantandroids wrote: post #343

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

There are often arguments (with merit) over Bitcoins wasteful use of energy, but I expect a lot of it is from hindight of 'why the hell did I not buy some'.

It's factually a horrific waste of energy. People pointing that out are not looking back in "hindsight", but are actually concerned with the damages it is doing to our planet.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#355

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

My opinion of Bitcoin will change when it stops using more electricity than entire countries, for something Visa can do for comparatively nothing. I would hold the same opinion of any technology which used so much energy when there was a less wasteful alternative.

I also happen to be skeptical of Bitcoin's long-term outlook, but that's not why I'm actively against it as a technology. If it wasn't for the planet, I'd say people could put their money wherever they wanted. Actually, I still think they can—as long as they're willing to pay for the negative externalities they create. But then no one would actually use Bitcoin...

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#356

Post by xwolfi » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

fwiwm2c wrote: post #262

azinman2 wrote: post #120

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

By the time you understand Bitcoin/crypto, it will be too late for you to make profit from it. Get in now - lot more smarter people are in there and doing wonders for themselves. Look at your friends. Look at colleagues in your company. A lot of them are in. And here you are trying to make sense of it from your perspective. Even Ray Dalio is opening up and fair to say he knows a lot more things about finance and econ…

You mimic very well the typical bitcoin scammer!

They were all over in 2017 before the price dropped to 3k,I admit I was a bit of a savage when that happened.

In all seriousness with the scam you re running online, be careful and protect your family for when it goes back from 50k to 3k. A lot of people will have lost a lot of money :(

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#357

Post by gge » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

eterm wrote: post #3

> many crypto investors to believe the latest bull run is different "This time it's different" isn't an argument I find compelling for why something that is known to have bubbles and manipulation isn't in a bubble.

This time could end up being a bubble, but it is very different for many reasons.

The first is that Bitcoin is thriving as a store of value. It hasn't seen much adoption as a payments system and is unlikely to do so in the future, but 2020 saw many notable people using adopting Bitcoin as a store of value. See MassMutual, Paul Tudor Jones, Stan Druckenmiller, Tesla, among many other examples.

The second reason is that defi protocols grew in usage by an insane amount in 2020. Decentralized exchanges like Uniswap are beating centralized exchanges in volume and lending protocols like Aave have billions deposited in them. These defi protocols are generating huge cash flows. This is real people using decentralized technologies built on blockchains like Ethereum.

Even if the 2021 bull run ends up like a bubble, 2021 will be different in that a lot of the price rises will be based on fundamentals, not pure speculation like in 2017. One thing to note though is that a Bubble is not necessarily a bad thing. In every past Bitcoin "bubble" (2011, 2014, 2017 etc) the price Bitcoin crashed to has always been higher than the price it started the run up at.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#358

Post by r32a_ » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:49 AM UTC

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

Many people on HN who talk down against Bitcoin are indoctrinated into the current ideology. Anything that goes against the current ideology is refuted, ignored, dismissed as fads, bubbles, scams..etc Ideology is a powerful thing and it's hard to break out of it.

If you want to learn more about this concept, you should research about Slavoj Zizek's work on ideology. Bitcoin is not just technology, but a multi-faceted ideology founded around cypherpunks ideas, liberty, sovereignty, austrian economic system, free markets.

Even the way Bitcoin is developed (slow, methodical) and Bitcoin apps are built is different to SV way which is move fast, break things, iterate.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#359

Post by elliottinvent » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:49 AM UTC

kerng wrote: post #336

Bitcoin has been around for a while now and it has been down talked quite a bit on HN whenever it comes up. It now has a larger market cap as Facebook - so the market sees more value in Bitcoin than Facebook. The sentiment on HN seem still be mostly against it whenever it comes up. I wonder why that is? I'd imagine 10 years from now Bitcoin will still be around and likely much larger than today - I'm less positive ab…

Facebook has been down talked plenty here too so I’m not sure it’s a good comparator.

A lot of the proponents of Bitcoin are pushing it in the same way people push MLM and ponzi schemes and for the same reasons, which is unfortunate.

For many, including me, it seems a great shame to be consuming so much computing power (and energy) to solve increasingly difficult mathematical problems for no human benefit when the same effort might be used for better ends.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#360

Post by incrudible » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 12:50 AM UTC

disruptalot wrote: post #332

incrudible wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you hedge against something like inflation, which is relatively constant over a year, by putting your money into a highly speculative risk asset with absolutely insane volatility over that same timeframe? Like many arguments for Bitcoin, this one just doesn't make sense.

"Relatively constant over a year" seems very loose don't you think? In the past year we've seen an unprecedented injection of money into the system. Presuming you're living in the U.S. have a look south of the border to find out how every national currency is always a few economic policies from throwing inflation targets out of the window.

Even countries that do have hyperinflation experience it at a somewhat predictable pace. With Bitcoin, you don't know if it's down 80% tomorrow, then up 200% the next day, then down 50% the day after. It's a huge tail risk.