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How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

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Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#291

Post by 908B64B197 »

baybal2 wrote: post #79

I worked in, and around OEM electronics since 2007. I've seen many guys like Tim Cook, most worse off ones. He squeezes suppliers, and know what he is doing. Others squeeze suppliers, and don't know what they are doing. On one of my first jobs, I've been witness to one such negotiations down to single cents, and microns of plastic for a few million units customized charger order. The order was such a whopper for a sm…

> I've seen many guys like Tim Cook, most worse off ones. [...] He squeezes suppliers, and know what he is doing. [...] Others squeeze suppliers, and don't know what they are doing. [...] 9 out of 10 companies in the supply chain will just shoot themselves in the foot if they go on doing it like that.

Apple is probably the most cargo-culted company out there, after Google maybe. The number of "Steve Jobs wanabes" that I met who didn't have the billions nor the string of successful products behind them was staggering. I have no doubt Tim Cook is cargo-culted as much as Jobs was.

For anyone attempting this, keep in mind he built a team of world class experts around him.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#292

Post by rurp »

petercooper wrote: post #256
spoonjim wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only use Apple chargers in my house, even for non Apple devices. I’m not saying Apple is the only quality charger, but I have no real methodology to assess the quality of any other brand.

FWIW, I've only used Anker chargers and USB power blocks for the past several years (including as my main MBP power sources) and have had absolutely zero problems. No methodology but their brand now stands for reliability in my mind, at least.

I stumbled on this brand a few years ago and the couple items of theirs I've bought have held up extremely well, which is quite a rarity in this product space.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#293

Post by 908B64B197 »

simonh wrote: post #287
jwr wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet they fail so spectacularly at software. All their devices are limited by software, they can't swing their weight to develop software across all platforms, and they can't deal with software bugs in a scalable way. It's intriguing: they managed to scale their hardware in an impressive way, but software lags so far behind it's not even funny.

I hesitated to reply because this is such a subjective issue. I look at the software on the Android and Windows side and just don't see much of interest to me. That's just me though. I think one area that Apple clearly does excel at though is software features that take advantage of specific hardware features. The fact they design the whole product in sync on both the hardware and software side, without either taking…

> I look at the software on the Android and Windows side and just don't see much of interest to me. That's just me though.

At the end Windows Phone ended up being tightly integrated to the handsets Microsoft built. And it could run extremely well on hardware considered too light to ever run Android smoothly. But it dropped compatibility for a lot of Windows API surfaces.

Windows has to maintain 25+ years of compatibility in certain areas (and still run software that only exists in compiled blobs, the source having been lost a long time ago by whatever enterprise software shop gone bankrupt).

Android has no excuses however. It's OEM cutting corners and shipping patched kernels and "fixes" for their SoC that's plaguing the whole ecosystem.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#294

Post by simonh »

axaxs wrote: post #290
simonh wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely it's a race out of the bottom (low value assembly) towards the top (high value design, prototyping, software and services). What's the value of racing back down to the bottom again? I don't know the current BOM, but for most of it's history more of the value in the components in an iPhone was actually manufactured in the US than in China. Gorilla Glass in New York state, flash memory in Kentucky, the CPUs used…

I don't really follow. Why in your example can a locale not have both jobs? Doing one doesn't prohibit the other.

Sure, if you can make low end low skill low value final assembly economic go for it. I just think the race to the bottom narrative is inverted with respect to reality.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#295

Post by simonh »

10000truths wrote: post #289
simonh wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Falling behind on what? Low end assembly line work at the very bottom of the value chain just isn't worth fighting low skilled workers from rural China or Vietnam over. The chances are all of that will be done by robots soon anyway, which is a whole new ball game.

It’s “low end” right up until you have no access to it. When it comes to national security, you don’t want to be in a position where the majority of your manufacturing output is at the mercy of a foreign country’s blessing. Your R&D is worth nothing if you can’t actually build.

That boat sailed a long, long time ago. The era where any country, even a giant like the US can make everything and be entirely self sufficient is long gone. What kind of future would realistically result in no access to foreign manufacturing or resources?

If the risk is seen as China particularly, they only do the lowest value lowest skilled work. Pretty much by definition that's the easiest to relocate. Samsung does most of it's phone manufacturing in Vietnam. Apple has assembly lines in Brazil and India. Yes they're vulnerable to short term pain, but even the recent trade war didn't come even close to the kind of massive economic death struggle that would lead to cutting off access to basic manufacturing. If we end up in an actual war, we'll have more to worry about than not getting the latest iPhone for a few years.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#296

Post by yazaddaruvala »

simonh wrote: post #247
silisili wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in USA should really read about world war efforts. You had a typewriter company make the most iconic handgun of all time, and fledgling car companies building plane engines. It was a true feat of modern engineering, one I wonder if could ever happen again, given our lack of production prowess. The US now is full of product people who build overseas. While it's currently economically smart, it's a race to the b…

Surely it's a race out of the bottom (low value assembly) towards the top (high value design, prototyping, software and services). What's the value of racing back down to the bottom again? I don't know the current BOM, but for most of it's history more of the value in the components in an iPhone was actually manufactured in the US than in China. Gorilla Glass in New York state, flash memory in Kentucky, the CPUs used…

I’m not smart enough to know, but my guess is that there is so much inefficient interconnection between components that it’s worth the effort for Apple, et-al to become supply chain specialists.

For example with the M1 they didn’t just make a CPU they made an SOC that reduces the need for a heatsink and all the supply chain costs that go with it.

If it were a simple one to one swap, without other efficiency improvements, I agree there is no incentive to take over that responsibility.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#297

Post by darkerside »

duxup wrote: post #105
darkerside wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a failure to express intent properly. You can have a strong personality and powerfully seek feedback or clarification. Not mutually exclusive.

I think it is different traditions and etc. I'm from the midwest. When I worked my first 'real job' I worked with some folks from the east coast. They could be very blunt and harsh to my Midwestern ears. Right until I realized that when they speak to you that way they're really engaging you and seeing if you'll respond in kind in order to demonstrate how certain you are about what you said. The right words with the r…

They put the onus on you to figure it out, and that's fine. I don't think it refutes what I said, which is that it is a failure to demonstrate what they are looking for. If they don't have the time or inclination to deal with people who don't "get it", that's up to them. They probably miss out on some opportunities because of it, but maybe avail themselves of others, or sidestep some distractions.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#298

Post by novok »

simonh wrote: post #196
novok wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's mobile devices haven't been that interesting since the iPhone X / Watch Series 3. Nothing really has felt like a 'must have' upgrade. iPhone 12 & series 4 watch was definitely an improvement stylistically, but that's about it. And apple only really cares about privacy from 3rd parties, not privacy from apple for their customers. They don't E2E encrypt their backups, and many other services, which makes their…

Supposedly they were planning to encrypt backups, but looked at the expected number of users that would lose their keys and not be able to access their backups and bottled out.

More likely: https://bgr.com/2020/01/21/iphone-icloud-backup-isnt-fully-e...

Also apple had your choice key escrow/backup for filevault backups, and it's the default option, which is how you deal with the above issue.

Also a few key things are E2E backed up (keychain, health), so that reason hasn't stopped them before.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#299

Post by totalZero »

valuearb wrote: post #201
totalZero wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article argues why it would be more expensive in the short term. The argument I've seen for bringing production closer to home is that it's going to be painful either way so we ought to rip the bandaid off, because every year that we continue the status quo represents more money and market power amassed by other nations on the back of American demand. There's more to corporate or economic strategy than today's co…

That’s silly, we get as much benefit from free trade as every other country. Let China or India do assembly at wages that would be below minimum wage here, and take those savings to get a bigger piece of the market, sell more iPhones, do more software and hardware design and create more developer jobs.

> we get as much benefit from free trade as every other country

Considering that trade relationships are fundamentally asymmetrical (ie, you wouldn't have them if you were self-sufficient in the market segment being traded), I think this is a naive view of the wealth transfer and externalities associated with international trade.

Re: How Tim Cook transformed Apple after Steve Jobs

#300

Post by Judgmentality »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #214
Judgmentality wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody else has Apple's resources for supply management, nor are they as large a target for getting sued - Apple has the ability and incentive to sell safe products.

And Samsung, Panasonic, LG, SONY, Lenovo, Dell, HP and every other major electronics brand don't? How so?

Apple is bigger and has better control of their supply chain. Similarly, those large companies would also likely build safe products, but it would be slightly less of a safe bet.

Overall most of those companies have excellent track records, but I bet everybody still remembers the exploding batteries from Samsung. Meanwhile, Sony actually has a pretty spotty track record (depending on where privacy and safety overlap for you), but most people have forgotten the root kit scandal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

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