The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)

Post by smeej » Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #90

smeej wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or for that matter, what existence do you imagine "you" have apart from your body? Even the distinction between brain and body is artificial. Your brain isn't "you" in some special way that the rest of your body isn't. The whole unity is "you."

> Your brain isn't "you" in some special way that the rest of your body isn't. Well, in some way it is, in that they can cut your hands and feet, and you'll still be you. And perhaps if they could just put your head/brain in a jar, and you were still coscious, you'd still consider yourself you...

Post by smeej » Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 1:08 PM UTC

cardanome wrote: post #84

smeej wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not decide to be hungry, but regardless of your hunger, you can choose not to eat. Incidentally I think that's also what separates us from other animals. Animals can't fast, for example. If the instinct is present, the animal acts on it. We don't have to. In fact, if it mattered enough to me, I could starve myself to death.

That is not true. Some dogs are famously picky eaters and will not touch the food even when hungry because they learned that their handler will then panic and provide better food. You might interpret that as the dog "choosing" not to eat. Of course it is just a learned response as with humans. You can absolutely train a dog to not eat food, to "fast" if you will. Of course it wont starve itself to death probably, at…

Post by GoblinSlayer » Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

mcguire wrote: post #11

This kind of research shows how deeply dualism is ingrained in philosophy and the cognitive sciences. Picture this: You decide to move your hand, then you move your hand. An observer using fMRI or somesuch notes that they observe neural activity before you report making the decision, and they can even predict where and how you are going to move from observations of neural behavior. If you are a materialist, how is th…

I think a modern dualist would view this as hardware vs software. If all were able to measure were voltage levels on a CPU, you would say all computing is inevitably bound to changing electrical voltages/currents. However, you would miss out on all the math and algorithms and the beauty and richness that is software. A dualist might see the “soul” as the software that the physical brain executes. Of course, if all yo…

Post by analog31 » Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

gwd wrote: post #100

analog31 wrote: post #55

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I wonder if the notion of free will owes itself to theology, notably the question of God's responsibility for evil, and similar puzzles. Maybe philosophical free will is a solution in search of a non-theological problem.

> Maybe philosophical free will is a solution in search of a non-theological problem. I don't think it's a theological problem; I think it's the way we think about things every day. Consider four situations: 1. You walk into the kitchen and a pan which you'd placed on top of the fridge at a precarious angle falls on your head. 2. You walk into the kitchen, and your spouse, who honestly thinks you're a burglar who has…

Post by red75prime » Tue, Feb 16, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #11

This kind of research shows how deeply dualism is ingrained in philosophy and the cognitive sciences. Picture this: You decide to move your hand, then you move your hand. An observer using fMRI or somesuch notes that they observe neural activity before you report making the decision, and they can even predict where and how you are going to move from observations of neural behavior. If you are a materialist, how is th…