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Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

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Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#331

Post by oraphalous »

tomxor wrote: post #108
ssss11 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give you the other side: It also uses less than all idle devices plugged in, in the US. Either Argentina doesnt use as much as you’d think or the US wastes a whole lot of power doing nothing. I’d argue thats way worse than mining bitcoin! Anyway its a sensationalist statistic designed to arouse your response. I’d expect theres heaps of things more wasteful.. office building services running 24/7 comes to mind

> It also uses less than all idle devices plugged in, in the US I'd bet that _all_ idle "devices" in in the US are providing far more utility by being ready and available to do ... anything (you did say all), than bitcoin which is _only_ a vehicle for speculating on intrinsic value being used by a tiny minority. Sorry but I'm fed up of these stupid comparisons, if bitcoin uses 0.56% of the worlds electricity, there a…

Having a reliable store of value - is itself extremely valuable. At least to me... and to quite a few others apparently, with more and more by the day.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#332

Post by SantalBlush »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #163
blurbleblurble wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to see it as anything but that because cryptocurrency people don't collectively realize the gravity of the PR disaster they have on their hands. Central banks are looking for reasons to shut down the whole cryptocurrency space and in an ignorant public's eye, bitcoin's absurd energy waste is a perfect reason to do just that. Where is the coinmarketcap-like tool that indexes cryptocurrency projects' energy (…

Bitcoin is probably the most important social/technological innovation since the internet (which uses how much energy?). Most people realize that moving humanity forward requires energy. There's loud neo-luddite contingent that missed the boat on crypto (it's actually not too late), but I wouldn't take angry anti-crypto HN comments as public sentiment. The public is in desperate need of a finance system not tied to t…

This is such a vague explanation of bitcoin's usefulness that I'm even more glad to use US dollars after reading it. "Most important social/technological innovation since the internet." "Moving humanity forward." "Not tied to the existing oppressive establishment." These are not real, concrete reasons for anyone to switch to bitcoin. These are statements I would expect to hear from someone who is trying to recruit me into a pyramid scheme.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#333

Post by trident5000 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #328
trident5000 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously thats going to be the case through rampant price discovery. Youre not saying anything original. Are you smarter than Visa and Mastercard and Paypal? Maybe they know something about future consumers that you dont.

You clearly have some kind of chip on your shoulder either about me or about this subject. Acting like a snob won’t get you many conversation partners. Take care.

I didnt think my response was very aggressive, at least it wasnt meant to be. Nevertheless you're free to do as you wish. Toodles

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#334

Post by davidmurdoch »

philjohn wrote: post #111
willbudd wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof-of-work =/= cryptocurrency. There are cryptocurrencies that work without proof-of-work, and those that quantitatively rely on it to a far lesser degree. Honestly, it continues to surprise me how clueless most of HN commenters are on this topic.

That's all well and good, but Bitcoin is the de facto cryptocurrency - the one everyone has heard of, and still the most popular.

Ethereum is used more than bitcoin (measured in transactions per day), so that'd make it more likely to be considered the de facto cryptocurrency, no? It'd also make it more "popular" with cryptocurrency users, though definitely not as well known by the layman.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#335

Post by jki275 »

akra wrote: post #329
samsonradu wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the vast majority of the electricity being consumed for bitcoin mining is hydro in China Side concern but isn’t this concentration a red flag? Likely many miners are in China or Russia due to the electricity prices. Can’t they collude to execute a 51% attack?

They could and can. The problem with both PoW and PoS is concentration of consensus/trust over time I think. There are models I've seen that break that up somewhat in PoW and potentially other forms by relying on something that is hard to concentrate (e.g. the market for consumer grade CPU's, social networks, etc). I would like something that anyone can run, but has some natural barrier that prevents it from being ce…

That's proof of stake. Look at Cardano and Tezos.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#336

Post by throwaway829 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #327
Consultant32452 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we imagine a deflationary currency encourages savings over consumerism... That doesn't sound so bad.

From everything I’ve read, it tends to stagnate society. Why buy a car when you can just hold onto your money and tomorrow you can buy a house? Why buy a house when tomorrow you can buy a mansion. No value is produced because there is little incentive to invest into anything since just holding onto your money is a safe investment.

People buy things for the utility they provide. I could have not bought a PC 20+ years ago and waited for today’s PCs which 100x faster and cheaper but I wouldn’t of had a PC for 20+ years. Deflation in PC did not stop me from purchasing something I needed. Did society stagnate because PCs got cheaper?

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#337

Post by SantalBlush »

briefcomment wrote: post #324
SantalBlush wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We need an uninflatable store of value more than anything People keep repeating this as if it's a well known truth, and I'm wondering where they came up with the idea. Why are we to believe that inflation is the source of our current economic woes?

Do you feel like you're getting the appropriate share of money printing needed to maintain your purchasing power? Don't the really desirable assets, like the best land and houses, and the best education, get increasingly more expensive, relative to your purchasing power? Certainly someone is gobbling up those dollars. I don't think it's most people though.

That isn't really how it works. Banks do not "print money," they expand the money supply through loans. When interest rates are low, savers move their existing money away from assets like bonds toward higher yielding assets like stock and real estate.

If the money supply were to suddenly shrink, the average person would not become richer; that added value would be concentrated in fewer hands. That's basically what is happening with bitcoin.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#338

Post by whateveracct »

oraphalous wrote: post #331
tomxor wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also uses less than all idle devices plugged in, in the US I'd bet that _all_ idle "devices" in in the US are providing far more utility by being ready and available to do ... anything (you did say all), than bitcoin which is _only_ a vehicle for speculating on intrinsic value being used by a tiny minority. Sorry but I'm fed up of these stupid comparisons, if bitcoin uses 0.56% of the worlds electricity, there a…

Having a reliable store of value - is itself extremely valuable. At least to me... and to quite a few others apparently, with more and more by the day.

i can't believe this "store of value" hype pivot that BTC pulled actually worked

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#339

Post by throwaway829 »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #192
qeternity wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the past 10 years you could have kept your money in a savings account or Bitcoin. The classic false dichotomy by people peddling crypto. Nobody is keeping their money in a savings account. There are productive investments that aren't crypto.

What asset class has returned value like crypto for the past 10 years? None.

I’m pro crypto but this statement could of been made during the tulip mania. I think the better argument is being free from central bank devaluation of hard earned savings.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#340

Post by oraphalous »

thamer wrote: post #196
edgefield0 wrote: post #59

The fact that bitcoin mining on its own is now consuming as much electricity as the country of Argentina with no end in sight, as we are accelerating toward a climate change cliff, is sickening. Given this fact alone it's hard to see cryptocurrency as anything but a selfish crackpot scheme to generate a few dollars at the expense of humanity and our planet.

It really is terrible, and many enthusiasts don't seem to understand enough about Bitcoin to even realize it. For so many it's just a way to make a quick buck when Elon tweets about it. To put in in numbers, according to the Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index[1] (they link to other research that arrive at similar conclusions, if not worse): the total footprint is almost 37 million tons of CO2, a single transaction acco…

"and many enthusiasts don't seem to understand enough about Bitcoin to even realize it."

Yeah because - smart people in the bitcoin space NEVER spent any time thinking about energy consumption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T0OUIW89II

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