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Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

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Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#321

Post by [deleted] »

IgorPartola wrote: post #318
trident5000 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because Ill never buy food and housing until I die because my currency is deflationary. That logic is so tired. Also the fact that you can convert US dollars to investments instantly instead of consuming basically extends the same situation, yet we still spend when we need to.

You see a lot of people buying groceries with BTC currently? What I see most people do is buy BTC and hold it, living off their regular paychecks, waiting for the BTC portfolio to hit some goal. They then trade it to the next investor who does the same. It’s not a currency so much as a store of value. It’s a stock, not money.

[deleted]

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#322

Post by playingchanges »

ssss11 wrote: post #73
edgefield0 wrote: post #59

The fact that bitcoin mining on its own is now consuming as much electricity as the country of Argentina with no end in sight, as we are accelerating toward a climate change cliff, is sickening. Given this fact alone it's hard to see cryptocurrency as anything but a selfish crackpot scheme to generate a few dollars at the expense of humanity and our planet.

To give you the other side: It also uses less than all idle devices plugged in, in the US. Either Argentina doesnt use as much as you’d think or the US wastes a whole lot of power doing nothing. I’d argue thats way worse than mining bitcoin! Anyway its a sensationalist statistic designed to arouse your response. I’d expect theres heaps of things more wasteful.. office building services running 24/7 comes to mind

How about empty cruise ships running off generators. Or all the oven lights left on accidentally across the world every night lol.

I wonder how much electricity California will be consuming when we stop selling gas cars and go all electric...

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#323

Post by SantalBlush »

briefcomment wrote: post #308
tomxor wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It hasn't failed at anything. It has failed at being a usable currency, and not merely for socioeconomic reasons. A currency is more than just intrinsic value.

We need an uninflatable store of value more than anything, which Bitcoin is. Think of how much unnecessary transacting and consumption is going on right now to escape a constantly inflating dollar. "Investments" and consumptions will tank with a deflationary store of value.

>We need an uninflatable store of value more than anything

People keep repeating this as if it's a well known truth, and I'm wondering where they came up with the idea. Why are we to believe that inflation is the source of our current economic woes?

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#324

Post by briefcomment »

SantalBlush wrote: post #323
briefcomment wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need an uninflatable store of value more than anything, which Bitcoin is. Think of how much unnecessary transacting and consumption is going on right now to escape a constantly inflating dollar. "Investments" and consumptions will tank with a deflationary store of value.

>We need an uninflatable store of value more than anything People keep repeating this as if it's a well known truth, and I'm wondering where they came up with the idea. Why are we to believe that inflation is the source of our current economic woes?

Do you feel like you're getting the appropriate share of money printing needed to maintain your purchasing power? Don't the really desirable assets, like the best land and houses, and the best education, get increasingly more expensive, relative to your purchasing power?

Certainly someone is gobbling up those dollars. I don't think it's most people though.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#325

Post by trident5000 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #318
trident5000 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because Ill never buy food and housing until I die because my currency is deflationary. That logic is so tired. Also the fact that you can convert US dollars to investments instantly instead of consuming basically extends the same situation, yet we still spend when we need to.

You see a lot of people buying groceries with BTC currently? What I see most people do is buy BTC and hold it, living off their regular paychecks, waiting for the BTC portfolio to hit some goal. They then trade it to the next investor who does the same. It’s not a currency so much as a store of value. It’s a stock, not money.

Obviously thats going to be the case through rampant price discovery. Youre not saying anything original. Are you smarter than Visa and Mastercard and Paypal? Maybe they know something about future consumers that you dont.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#326

Post by akra »

willbudd wrote: post #302
akra wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of the clueless novices on this topic what I fail to understand is that proof-of-stake and other consensus mechanisms have been available for alt-coins now for a little while - yet BTC is still dominant. Is it just because of popularity of BTC? If so I struggle to understand how the market is rational here (not saying it has to be). And do other coins/forks issued with similar rules/characteristics cause a pri…

Imagine you have created a new social media webapp with a few innovative new features not seen elsewhere. Would that spell doom for a now suddenly inferior Facebook/Twitter/etc. Possibly, but the network effect in terms of inertia and critical mass makes that an unlikely proposition. Moreover, the driving force behind Bitcoin keeping it ahead of the pack so far is the promise of short/medium term profit as an investm…

The thing is for me, and maybe that's an opinion, is that the investment vehicle due to scarcity is the more important utility right now. Given all the QE and low interest rates across the board worldwide that is the real value prop. There is a need for an asset such as this to preserve wealth, and other assets such as gold have market mechanisms to stop them running away too far I think (e.g. gold certificates, reserve banks willing to liquidate, etc).

In first world countries for most people I would argue for all its faults the banking system is "good enough". In my local country can send money to people almost real time and pay by card quickly and easily without fees. Sure there is still room for improvement, but for most average people the need to change is low. Especially when I still need the banking system as "primary" to pay my taxes, settle my bills, etc - you know all the "real stuff".

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#327

Post by IgorPartola »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #320
trident5000 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because Ill never buy food and housing until I die because my currency is deflationary. That logic is so tired. Also the fact that you can convert US dollars to investments instantly instead of consuming basically extends the same situation, yet we still spend when we need to.

If we imagine a deflationary currency encourages savings over consumerism... That doesn't sound so bad.

From everything I’ve read, it tends to stagnate society. Why buy a car when you can just hold onto your money and tomorrow you can buy a house? Why buy a house when tomorrow you can buy a mansion. No value is produced because there is little incentive to invest into anything since just holding onto your money is a safe investment.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#328

Post by IgorPartola »

trident5000 wrote: post #325
IgorPartola wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see a lot of people buying groceries with BTC currently? What I see most people do is buy BTC and hold it, living off their regular paychecks, waiting for the BTC portfolio to hit some goal. They then trade it to the next investor who does the same. It’s not a currency so much as a store of value. It’s a stock, not money.

Obviously thats going to be the case through rampant price discovery. Youre not saying anything original. Are you smarter than Visa and Mastercard and Paypal? Maybe they know something about future consumers that you dont.

You clearly have some kind of chip on your shoulder either about me or about this subject. Acting like a snob won’t get you many conversation partners. Take care.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#329

Post by akra »

samsonradu wrote: post #117
jki275 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tezos and Cardano are the top two cryptocurrencies that don't use this model at all. They use proof of stake, which doesn't consume any significant amount of electricity. Also, the vast majority of the electricity being consumed for bitcoin mining is hydro in China and has nothing to do with climate change. Also, equating bitcoin to cryptocurrency isn't accurate at all. There are hundreds of others.

> the vast majority of the electricity being consumed for bitcoin mining is hydro in China Side concern but isn’t this concentration a red flag? Likely many miners are in China or Russia due to the electricity prices. Can’t they collude to execute a 51% attack?

They could and can. The problem with both PoW and PoS is concentration of consensus/trust over time I think. There are models I've seen that break that up somewhat in PoW and potentially other forms by relying on something that is hard to concentrate (e.g. the market for consumer grade CPU's, social networks, etc). I would like something that anyone can run, but has some natural barrier that prevents it from being centralised.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#330

Post by undersuit »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #213
undersuit wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much energy does encrypting all our video transmissions cost? I don't care how efficient the hardware running HDCP is, it's still wasteful to do so for every application and it's not even to protect the users nor would it be effective in the current form as such.

HDCP's energy usage is marginal, but yes, it's pointless and I'd very much like to kill it. More critically, I'd also like all mobile phones to receive software support for three times as long as what Apple currently provides, and I'd like to build more wind farms and stop shutting down nuclear plants. None of this excuses Bitcoin.

I don't know why Bitcoin needs to be excused.
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