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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#181

Post by neonological »

throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

The question is, If the patent system didn't allow the inventor to screw with the market and take advantage of everybody would they have had the incentive in the first place to develop the technology?

So yes the patent is responsible for the existence of the monopoly, but it is also responsible for the existence of the product that the monopoly is built upon.

I think a 10 year limit on the monopoly is a good compromise (which is basically what the patent system is already doing). Even with those companies patenting DNA... after 10 years the argument is over.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#182

Post by kiba »

mottosso wrote: post #143
m-p-3 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I hope their patents expire ASAP. They're hampering the technological progress of e-paper devices with their iron grip on the technology.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though? If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

Patent held back the development of 3D printers, and accessibility of 3D printing in general for everyone. I now see weird and clumsy workaround to avoid patent lawsuits for things like conveyor belts as well lack of certain commercial goods such as heated chamber.

Just because someone is an innovator doesn't mean they are for continual innovations or for the spread of innovations or like the idea of people building on their works.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#183

Post by pfortuny »

neonological wrote: post #181
throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

The question is, If the patent system didn't allow the inventor to screw with the market and take advantage of everybody would they have had the incentive in the first place to develop the technology? So yes the patent is responsible for the existence of the monopoly, but it is also responsible for the existence of the product that the monopoly is built upon. I think a 10 year limit on the monopoly is a good compromi…

geometric increase in the patent permit price.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#184

Post by dodobirdlord »

iso8859-1 wrote: post #148
throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

Why can't a Chinese company clone their product and kill them?

They could replace E-Ink in China, and maybe they already have. But China's disregard for IP protections doesn't mean that goods created in China that violate international IP agreements can be exported.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#185

Post by mjcohen »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #101
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

I would take one if i also could use it as replacement for my kindle.

If it runs android, you can use the kindle app.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#186

Post by yobert »

mumblemumble wrote: post #83
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

Could you expound a bit on why you think it's more useful? I am thinking about getting one (or one of a couple other similar options), because I think it would be MUCH more comfortable for reading and annotating papers, which is my main practical use case for an iPad. And if it's at all a decent replacement for a paper notebook, that would reduce the number of things in my bag. But I'm also a bit worried that the org…

This is not the normal use case of a remarkable 2, but I have found it to be the absolute best childrens toy ever. My 4 year old spends probably 2 hours a day drawing on it, making mazes out of the graph paper templates, drawing beehives on the hexagonal templates, doodling on cut-away diagrams of space shuttles and pirate ships that I found and imported as PDFs from the web.

It feels wonderful for him to use, as opposed to the iPad which makes me feel like I'm rotting his brain. After a half hour of using the ipad, he's irritable and throws a tantrum when it's time to put it away. With the remarkable it's just like a pad of paper, but I don't have to worry about him getting ink on my bedspread.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#187

Post by _joel »

wott wrote: post #172
_joel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The broke musicians I know can barely afford to pay their rent.

Both can be true at the same time.

Having expensive equipment by virtue doesn't mean you have captial to buy more expensive equipment. I think my definition of being broke must be different to yours, if it means you're able to buy an expensive (for what it really is, you're paying mainly for IP there) e-ink display just for scoring. Especially in an age when the usual gigging and live performances have been virtually non-existent for a year.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#188

Post by anigbrowl »

m-p-3 wrote: post #81
luplex wrote: post #28

I suspect an additional reason: their customers are not very price-sensitive. They obviously can't compete with paper on price, so they don't even try.

I'd be a customer if the price was lower..

'Veblen goods' are items that are desirable partly because poor people can't afford them. They're a way for better-off people to signal to each other. Of course, e-ink devices are not so fancy that only well-off people can carry them. But if you see someone with an e-ink device and they also have nice shoes, clothes, and accessories, it's reasonable to assume somewhat high social status.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#189

Post by cosmotic »

danaos wrote: post #119
throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

Have you heard of Clearink? [1] They are using a different technology which appears to be superior. One can hope they will be reaching market soon. https://clearinkdisplays.com/

All these product shots look fake and I don't see any specifications, just vague claims. I'm curious in what way it seems superior.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#190

Post by AshamedCaptain »

ohitsdom wrote: post #145

I would have loved to buy something more capable, but instead I settled for this cheap LCD writing display as a mini-whiteboard. I don't even know how to describe this technology but it gets the job done at $20. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QL11LWF

This has been my point many times -- people actually have trouble distinguishing eInk from el-cheapo non-backlighted LCD displays.
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