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New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

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Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#141

Post by superqd »

123409871234 wrote: post #101
superqd wrote: post #64

So much nutrition research is all correlation and no causation. Statements like this, which over-infer, kill me: "There is little doubt that people with high cholesterol have an increased risk of disease." It's just as valid to say that people with heart disease are more likely to have high cholesterol. When all you have is correlation, there is a heart disease group, and a high cholesterol group, and all you shown w…

We know that high cholesterol is a cause of heart disease rather than a mere correlation because people with genetic Hypercholesterolemia have a rate of heart disease 10-20x that of the general population, independent of other risk factors: https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/06/01...

That doesn't rebut my assertion or complaint at all, since you are referring to a specific type of genetic disorder.

The research in general on nutrition and hearth health is still mostly correlation. Definitely someone with a specific disorder could have a more obvious causal link with cholesterol and cardiac events, but I've read a bunch of different papers, many from respected institutions, and the conclusions usually are, IMHO (I studied physics), garbage.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#142

Post by 123409871234 »

sfink wrote: post #136
JacobSuperslav wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we actually understand the underlying mechanisms here, to a decent extent. In case of people who have a high level LDL cholesterol, the phagocytes - the scavenger cells in blood consume more cholesterol particles in general. The result is cholesterol is more likely to stick to the walls of affected blood vessels. This is one of the most thoroughly researched topics in medicine. Does it mean high LDL will always re…

The "thoroughness" of the research doesn't matter much when it's based upon a false assumption or two. You describe one mechanism by which cholesterol could cause heart disease. As you say, there is lots of evidence that it happens -- in an unknown subset of the population, with defining characteristics that nobody's managed to figure out. The science just isn't there. And the financial success of statins seems to re…

The molecular mechanism by which cholesterol causes heart disease is well understood, and atherosclerosis has been experimentally induced in every species of mammal ever studied by either feeding the animals a high cholesterol diet or knocking out genes related to LDL metabolism, and these results are consistent between hundreds of studies performed over the past 100 years. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4525717/

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#143

Post by isoos »

elhudy wrote: post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

It may be that she has insulin intolerance / resistance, it may be worth to check for it. I've heard a similar case, and after the insulin intolerance treatment was ongoing for a while, the cholesterol level dropped.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#144

Post by rafaelero »

nradov wrote: post #105
rafaelero wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you see, I don't agree that these conclusions are based on low quality data. These conclusions are not merely based on observational studies, as you pointed. This question is being asked for more than 70 years and a lot of different types of designs have been tried: putting people on strictly monitored diets and seeing what happens to their biomarkers, finding people with weird mutations that lower their LDL chol…

Go back and read those studies again. No clear causal link has been found between those biomarkers and all-cause mortality.

Oh, dear...

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#145

Post by wtetzner »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #138
pjkundert wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the epic, explosive scale of obesity, diabetes and heart disease under the modern government recommended high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet doesn't give you pause, then.... I just don't know what to say.

Those aren't their recommendations. https://www.dietaryguidelines.gov/sites/default/files/2020-1...

They do recommend eating polyunsaturates over saturated fats. That isn't doing us any favors.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#146

Post by nradov »

coldtea wrote: post #134
nradov wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A burger can be healthy.

Stocking one's mouth with many, though, not.

Eating too much of any food is usually unhealthy due to the excess calories. Burgers aren't especially bad or good in that regard.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#147

Post by dpoochieni »

superqd wrote: post #64

So much nutrition research is all correlation and no causation. Statements like this, which over-infer, kill me: "There is little doubt that people with high cholesterol have an increased risk of disease." It's just as valid to say that people with heart disease are more likely to have high cholesterol. When all you have is correlation, there is a heart disease group, and a high cholesterol group, and all you shown w…

Nutrition from a biochemical standpoint: raypeat.com

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#148

Post by dpoochieni »

sradman wrote: post #23

PROBLEM #1: High saturated fat diet correlated to high serum cholesterol ANSWER #1: Serum cholesterol is transferred back-and-forth between the blood and cell membranes to maintain a constant cell rigidity; normal behavior PROBLEM #2: High serum cholesterol correlated to cardiovascular disease ANSWER #2: Chronic inflammation associated with metabolic disorders upsets the various regulatory systems I find the second a…

I do not know where you got this idea but it seems to me on the right track. This theory actually is the one followers of Ray Peat tend to be partial of. Cholesterol (among other things) is just treated as a number to be lowered or whatever; how many people actually ponder whether it just is a protective mechanism for an underlying condition, deficiency or an adaptation to an inflammatory diet? This btw, results in misguided solutions such as statins which (at least in my family, n=4) produce a reduced quality of life.
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