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US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

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Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#451

Post by anonymouse008 »

__m wrote: post #443
dirtyid wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chinese friends/wife/coworker said" is particularly kind of ridiculous appeal to authority considering the average citizen is not typically a subject matter expert on relevant topics being discussed outside of generalized familiarity with the censorship apparatus. The only useful things the average Chinese person will tell you is Chinese numbers / stats with Chinese characteristics are not accurate, but analysts fam…

Shhh, we need to cover the uncomfortable truth that our numbers could have been better if we took (and take) the threat serious

By that same logic - Did you ever leave your house feb 2020 to now? If you did, you could’ve done more.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#453

Post by baq »

fma wrote: post #352
vimy wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly what happened with covid-19. By the time Beijing knew about it things were already out of control.

Yeah...the irony is Beijing blames Wuhan for not being transparent. And here's Beijing doing the same.

No irony here. The axiom is party doesn’t make mistakes, the only possible consequence is others are to blame.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#454

Post by csense »

kjakm wrote: post #113
esja wrote: post #31

I am yet to see a single piece of evidence which rules out the lab leak hypothesis. Meanwhile the circumstantial evidence in favour of that hypothesis (including China’s behaviour) continues to pile up. We may never discover the truth, but I really hope we do.

>> Meanwhile the circumstantial evidence in favour of that hypothesis (including China’s behaviour) continues to pile up. What circumstantial evidence?

The location of the Wuhan Institute of Virology was jumping around on Google Maps back in February 2020. I personally know someone who firsthand confirmed this. It was also mentioned by free software legend Eric S. Raymond here: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8587

Presumably someone in the Chinese government ordered Google to lie about the institute's location. Why would the Chinese government do that if the institute was uninvolved?

Investigators ought to ask China who ordered it, and why. And ask Google the same thing.

I do feel a bit sorry for Google employees who'd be caught in the middle if this actually happens.

US government to Google: "Tell us about how China ordered Google Maps to help with the coverup. If you lie to the investigators, we'll send you to jail."

China government to Google: "When the US asks about the Google Maps coverup, lie. If you don't lie to the investigators, we'll send you to jail."

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#455

Post by em500 »

lenkite wrote: post #341
XorNot wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. The amount of concern over what China, at the time regarded as a belligerent untrustworthy power, fails to explain why western governments took so long to take any mitigating measures and then some continued to actively oppose mitigating measures while still insisting this is somehow something China is going to actually fix on their end. The tone and tenor of the investigation has always been to find a way…

World governments were formally advised by the WHO to not impose any travel restrictions. The WHO also laughably said there is no "human transmission" of the virus. The WHO chief just blindly parroted whatever the CCP said for nearly 2 months while the pandemic spread and got out of control. That man deserves to be stripped out of his position. But he will face no justice for the many, many lives he has taken. The en…

This paints a rather colored picture. The initial advisory from 14 Jan 2020 [1] presents their case that

    "Based on the available information there is no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission."
The reader can decide if that was a fair assesment at the time. The text was followed by

    "Additional investigation is needed to ascertain the presence of human-to-human transmission, modes of transmission, common source of exposure and the presence of asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic cases that are undetected. It is critical to review all available information to fully understand the potential transmissibility among humans."
A week later, on 22 Jan 2020, WHO followed up with a confirmation of human transmission [2]

    "Data collected through detailed epidemiological investigation and through the deployment of the new test kit nationally suggests that human-to-human transmission is taking place in Wuhan. More analysis of the epidemiological data is needed to understand the full extent of human-to-human transmission."
(Of course it was impossibly to deny that by then, since Wuhan was locked down the same day.)

In my small European countries, no public measures were taken based on all this info until early March (more than 2 weeks after Northern Italy was overwhelmed, while our countrymen had been traveling all over Europe), because there were no confirmed cases in our country yet. The only initial measures in early March were advices to "wash your hands", "don't shake hands" and "sneeze in your elbows".

So I don't think the WHO confirming human transmission on 14 Jan instead of 22 Jan would have changed a thing. People only take painful measures when bad things happen to people they know, and politicians only when bad things happen to people in their own country. Trying to shift the blame on the WHO or China is not very common amongst politicians here (though anecdotally it's not rare among citizens), that seems to be mostly an American (specifically, Republican party) thing.

[1] https://www.who.int/csr/don/14-january-2020-novel-coronaviru...

[2] https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/22-01-2020-field-visit...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#456

Post by Aunche »

sebmellen wrote: post #305
cratermoon wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epidemiology. History. The Spanish Flu was called that because at the time everyone (for xenophobic reasons... sound familiar?) blamed Spain. Today we can say with reasonable confidence that the source of the 1918 influenza epidemic was.... wait for it..... Kansas

People did not blame Spain for xenophobic reasons, just because the Spanish press was the first to report on it. And, as pertains to the virus's origin, COVID-19 did come from China, and we know that. We have epidemiology to guide us here, and the situation is altogether different from 1918 w/r/t speed of communication and the state of science.

> People did not blame Spain for xenophobic reasons, just because the Spanish press was the first to report on it.

That doesn't disprove xenophobia at all. The Spanish press reported on it first because every nation involved in WWI very aggressively censored any mention of the flu. After the war, they had every incentive to play into people's natural xenophobia rather admit to covering up the disease. Here you see the Spanish Flu depicted as a flamenco lady:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/G386J3/the-spanish-flu-epidemic-ov...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#457

Post by kjakm »

csense wrote: post #454
kjakm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Meanwhile the circumstantial evidence in favour of that hypothesis (including China’s behaviour) continues to pile up. What circumstantial evidence?

The location of the Wuhan Institute of Virology was jumping around on Google Maps back in February 2020. I personally know someone who firsthand confirmed this. It was also mentioned by free software legend Eric S. Raymond here: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8587 Presumably someone in the Chinese government ordered Google to lie about the institute's location. Why would the Chinese government do that if the institute was…

This is what’s considered circumstantial evidence that a lab created a virus, accidentally leaked it and a state covered it up? I’m speechless. I hope this is a joke that’s gone over my head...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#458

Post by petre »

duxup wrote: post #192
IIAOPSW wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just assume the ccp default mode is to cover up, even when there is nothing to cover up. When legitimacy derives from competence rather than from election, you better never have any high profile incompetence.

That's been a problem even internally in China where local government hides things from those up the chain and then things get out of hand.

It's exactly like in Chernobyl's case, only the Soviets couldn't cover up the cause and got their act together when everybody found out.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#459

Post by quandrum »

izzydata wrote: post #377
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

I don't know why whenever people bring up that the virus might have come from a lab it always gets dismissed because the virus doesn't look artificial. Why is it never brought up that it could just be an accident? It doesn't need to be a weapon. Just poor safety during research.

Why did everyone brush over the Italians finding it in blood samples from September 19, 2 months before the outbreak in Wuhan?

Certain actors have a narrative they would like to push.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#460

Post by eecc »

mcswell wrote: post #403
blackrock wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the virus was a lab leak. But maybe you’re looking at the wrong country for it. I mean, name any other country that has a lot of biological weapons labs all over the world.

This is wrong, even deceitful, for a couple reasons: 1) No country (officially, or afaik in reality) has a bio weapons lab, and certainly not "all over the world". Nobody (well, nobody official) ever said the Wuhan virus lab was a bioweapon lab; it's a virology lab. 2) The Wuhan virus lab has been experimenting with corona viruses for a long time, including gain of function, and it had a history of problems. 3) There…

Sorry to ruin your narrative, but SARS-CoV-2 was circulating well before it showed up in Wuhan. https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-tim...

Perhaps people noticed it when it hit Wuhan and freaked out because of the Research Institute thinking “oh shit, is this what they’re playing with?”

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