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US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

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Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#441

Post by kaczordon »

JenniferRM wrote: post #433
alasdair_ wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that we could know in advance if a tiny mutation could turn a known disease into something that wipes us all out. Only inside level four labs, of course. But early warning (and this work on mitigation) seems important.

Maybe in BSL-5 labs? Must be in rural isolation, NOT a city. The administrators and janitors and everyone has to sleep inside the fence. Getting out requires spending 40 days in a quarantine hotel in a different nearby fenced area. Armed guards patrol the fence. (EDIT: To be clear. BSL-5 doesn't exist yet... but it should.)

I agree. We should treat this as the existential threat that it is.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#442

Post by bloomfilter »

Whether the virus came out of a lab or not, one thing is clear — we as a country can’t handle any pandemic. Till this day we still can’t get everyone wear a mask in public. (I have some people on FB working at tech industry with grad school education still think we should let the virus run its course, and mask is stupid)

Not to mention thousands of large social gatherings that happened way after the virus was already causing thousands of death.

If you can’t control other countries, maybe we should at least figure out how to improve our response?

What if some other virus comes out of nature next time when we have no one to blame?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#443

Post by __m »

dirtyid wrote: post #237
Der_Einzige wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being down-voted but this is exactly what my friends who live in China have told me. People were also downvoting big time back in March when I and others were saying that the numbers China was quoting were made the heck up. Suddenly the western media realizes that's true[1] yet we don't see a mass back-lash against China as a result... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55481397

"Chinese friends/wife/coworker said" is particularly kind of ridiculous appeal to authority considering the average citizen is not typically a subject matter expert on relevant topics being discussed outside of generalized familiarity with the censorship apparatus. The only useful things the average Chinese person will tell you is Chinese numbers / stats with Chinese characteristics are not accurate, but analysts fam…

Shhh, we need to cover the uncomfortable truth that our numbers could have been better if we took (and take) the threat serious

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#444

Post by whymauri »

eloff wrote: post #286
nickysielicki wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, both the official explanation and the conspiracy theory are both embarrassing for China and the CCP. SARS was supposed to have originated the same way -- in these disgusting third-world wet markets. The CCP shut them down after SARS for the sake of optics, but was too inept to "up" their health standards, and they conceded to pressure and reopened the disgusting third-world wet markets again. If this was some…

> in these disgusting third-world wet markets That's old information. The first cases of the virus had no connection with the wet market, and no connection could later be found other than it was the first major subsequent point of spreading for the virus. So it's much more likely that people spread it at the market, rather than that it came from there. However, they are indeed disgusting third-world wet markets and t…

Unless you're advocating pure vegetarianism, prolonged animal husbandry will inevitably lead to more diseases crossing to humans. The idea that this is only a problem in Africa and Asia is entirely nonsensical.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#445

Post by ttul »

rlt wrote: post #406
mkolodny wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a real possibility that a gain-of-function experiment created SARS-CoV-2: "Lipsitch’s activists (calling themselves the Cambridge Working Group) sent around a strong statement on the perils of research with “Potential Pandemic Pathogens,” signed by more than a hundred scientists. The work might “trigger outbreaks that would be difficult or impossible to control,” the signers said. Fauci reconsidered, and the…

> This research creates deadly diseases that may not have existed otherwise. This seems like a supremely bad idea.

Not if your point is to understand what can go wrong when viruses mutate.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#446

Post by Guthur »

alasdair_ wrote: post #424
rlt wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This research creates deadly diseases that may not have existed otherwise. This seems like a supremely bad idea.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that we could know in advance if a tiny mutation could turn a known disease into something that wipes us all out. Only inside level four labs, of course. But early warning (and this work on mitigation) seems important.

I'm definitely no expert but it seems to me that the sheer number of biological variables means that even if you know something could potentially get bad it wouldn't really give you much of a head start as any vaccine you might develop is not so likely to be viable. Testing the impact on living organisms would also have so many ethical issues as to be pretty much a non starter.

I'd genuinely like to know what we would get out of it that would warrant such risk taking?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#447

Post by raverbashing »

mkolodny wrote: post #400
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

There's a real possibility that a gain-of-function experiment created SARS-CoV-2: "Lipsitch’s activists (calling themselves the Cambridge Working Group) sent around a strong statement on the perils of research with “Potential Pandemic Pathogens,” signed by more than a hundred scientists. The work might “trigger outbreaks that would be difficult or impossible to control,” the signers said. Fauci reconsidered, and the…

It could be. But that I find extremely unlikely

A failed experiment? Maybe a bit more likely, but still I don't think so

Sars-Cov-2 looks like pretty much what it is: a zoonotic virus that "doesn't know what's going on"

Hence why only the recent mutations made its transmission more efficient.

Now, if it escaped unbeknownst from a research lab, that I would put on the plausible category. Would be more possible if it wouldn't have had a perfect virus breeding ground right next to it.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#448

Post by jfoster »

alasdair_ wrote: post #424
rlt wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This research creates deadly diseases that may not have existed otherwise. This seems like a supremely bad idea.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that we could know in advance if a tiny mutation could turn a known disease into something that wipes us all out. Only inside level four labs, of course. But early warning (and this work on mitigation) seems important.

Suppose you find that hypothetical mutation. What next? What would you do to prevent the current situation?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#449

Post by coddle-hark »

jfoster wrote: post #448
alasdair_ wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that we could know in advance if a tiny mutation could turn a known disease into something that wipes us all out. Only inside level four labs, of course. But early warning (and this work on mitigation) seems important.

Suppose you find that hypothetical mutation. What next? What would you do to prevent the current situation?

Start working on a vaccine.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#450

Post by raverbashing »

mcguire wrote: post #362
jgalt212 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, I trust WHO slightly more than I trust CCP. Biden is right to re-engage them, but they have a lot of work to do to get its reputation back. They can probably start by capping payments from any one country as to minimize the effects of soft power. An under-funded WHO is better than a biased WHO.

Note that the WHO has very similar problems to the International Red Cross: if they don't play by the rules of the governments in question, they get kicked out and can't do anything. Something is better than nothing, right? On the other hand, the WHO after the pandemic had clearly emerged continued to appear biased, seriously damaging its reputation.

Yeah, I trust WHO technicians much more than their "upper management" who wasn't light on appeasement and delaying of important actions
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