Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 664 posts

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#421

Post by didibus »

runawaybottle wrote: post #419
msie wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking if a virus was first spotted in New York City and it had a virus lab, would that be immediately blamed? It’s like all there is in Wuhan is a wet market and a virus research lab and they are located next to each other. I think that’s how the world perceives Wuhan.

Look, Americans would question the fuck out of the real origin of the virus if the official story was it came from a Wendys in Manhattan. That’s pretty much what CCP is saying, ‘uh, our local Wendy’s had like a virus’. Yeah ok. How about this China, find out what cave the market was getting their bats from. Go in there, confirm the bats have it, and release some data.

I don't know if a Wendy's is a fair comparison. I've heard those wet markets are kind of problematic for hosting pathogens especially. Personnally I'd find it coming from a wet market or a lab to both be just as iresponsible. In the latter you were trying to research possible new virus mutations to learn more about viruses and had poor containment procedures that leaked it out. In the former you run a unsanitary market with animals and people in too close proximity, with lack of proper hygiene.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#422

Post by jb775 »

P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul wrote: post #417
rlt wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you say “don’t ever trust” an entire race/sex, then yeah, by definition you are racist/sexist.

What about pointing out more factually based claims such as which groups commit more crimes, etc?

If you find yourself in this scenario, you're likely already stuck in a Kafkatrap situation[1].

[1] https://www.thedailybell.com/all-articles/editorials/wendy-m...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#423

Post by pishpash »

ttz wrote: post #64
bsd44 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you say so then it must be true. I mean this is internet after all.

Not sure where in my post it postulates anything about "truth". The entire point of the post is to say, we don't know the truth, but in the balance of probabilities, I wouldn't trust the CCP's version. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you just knee jerking?

Your balance of probabilities relies entire on priors. It's kind of useless and particularly uninformative.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#424

Post by alasdair_ »

rlt wrote: post #406
mkolodny wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a real possibility that a gain-of-function experiment created SARS-CoV-2: "Lipsitch’s activists (calling themselves the Cambridge Working Group) sent around a strong statement on the perils of research with “Potential Pandemic Pathogens,” signed by more than a hundred scientists. The work might “trigger outbreaks that would be difficult or impossible to control,” the signers said. Fauci reconsidered, and the…

> This research creates deadly diseases that may not have existed otherwise. This seems like a supremely bad idea.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that we could know in advance if a tiny mutation could turn a known disease into something that wipes us all out.

Only inside level four labs, of course. But early warning (and this work on mitigation) seems important.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#425

Post by knolax »

It's interesting that instead of posting the report itself, or even a detailed article that criticizes the report, the top article on HN is a bland summary of an accusation from a third party with no direct quotes or attribution. It's basically a press release.

The only article that I can find that actually tries to levy complaints of obstruction is this one from the NYT[0]. However, several of the WHO investigators quoted have gone on Twitter accusing the NYT of twisting their words[1]. Makes me pretty doubtful that there was any obstruction.

On one side we have a country with half a million cases that has since December been accusing China with "coverups" without materializing much evidence, despite document leaks and now an international investigation. On the other side we have a country with orders of magnitude fewer total and per capita cases, whose case demographics have matched up with numbers from other countries, and whose export numbers in neighboring countries has also been consistent with their reported numbers. At this point if there was some sort of obstruction or coverup the Whitehouse would have a smoking gun by now.

Other comments here talking about the "lab origin" theory pretty much hinge on theological logic. "Well it could come from a lab, and there's no proof yet that it didn't, so I have faith". It isn't Bayesian reasoning if you don't bring up rigorous statistics to prove your point.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/12/world/asia/china-world-he...

[1] https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/02/caught-in-the-act-new-...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#426

Post by alasdair_ »

duxup wrote: post #192
IIAOPSW wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just assume the ccp default mode is to cover up, even when there is nothing to cover up. When legitimacy derives from competence rather than from election, you better never have any high profile incompetence.

That's been a problem even internally in China where local government hides things from those up the chain and then things get out of hand.

A madman with a gun is only ever told things that stop him from pulling the trigger.

This is true of any hierarchical power structure, but is especially bad in overtly authoritarian ones.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#427

Post by gnulinux »

mattnewton wrote: post #336
fiftyfifty wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of behavior you see in organizations where the penalty for making mistakes is overly severe, the only recourse for people is to lie and cover-up the truth at all costs. This is how projects at some companies continue despite being way behind schedule and overbudget until eventually the weight of the truth brings everything crashing down.

The old story of the Chinese general Chen Shen comes to mind: Apparently he was running late due to rainstorms and the penalty for appearing this late to the Qin emperor was execution. Since that’s the same penalty for open rebellion, he decided he might as well try that too. And that was the beginning of the end of the Qin dynasty. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Sheng_Wu_Guang_uprising If the penalty for lying…

That's a fascinating story thanks for sharing.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#428

Post by throw7 »

ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

You could say exactly what you said about the U.S. and I am "First gen American, grew up in NA, have contact with relatives 'on the ground'"

Do you believe the devil doesn't exist?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#429

Post by astrange »

rlt wrote: post #418
astrange wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this supposed to be important? It literally doesn't matter if a virus comes out of a lab, if you can find an equally dangerous virus in the nearest bat cave. Being able to blame someone would not solve your actual problems.

What? Of course it matters. If it was accidentally released from a lab, those responsible should be held accountable so it’s less likely to happen again. If it was intentionally released, it’s even more important to know by who and why.

> What? Of course it matters. If it was accidentally released from a lab, those responsible should be held accountable so it’s less likely to happen again.

Because it doesn't matter if it's accidentally released from a lab, if you're going to catch it from a bat cave anyway. You haven't eliminated it from the world.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#430

Post by [deleted] »

mattnewton wrote: post #336
fiftyfifty wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of behavior you see in organizations where the penalty for making mistakes is overly severe, the only recourse for people is to lie and cover-up the truth at all costs. This is how projects at some companies continue despite being way behind schedule and overbudget until eventually the weight of the truth brings everything crashing down.

The old story of the Chinese general Chen Shen comes to mind: Apparently he was running late due to rainstorms and the penalty for appearing this late to the Qin emperor was execution. Since that’s the same penalty for open rebellion, he decided he might as well try that too. And that was the beginning of the end of the Qin dynasty. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Sheng_Wu_Guang_uprising If the penalty for lying…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN