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Statement on New York Times Article

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Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#21

This is the second article I’ve come across today lambasting the NYT for a hit piece, the second in my opinion is much worse given what the subject has been exposed to and has had to endure. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ayaan-hirsi-ali-and-the-... It seems the publication is in the midst of a takeover by woke radical authoritarians. It used to be that you should be cancelled and/or made a pariah of society for…

>It seems the publication is in the midst of a takeover by woke radical authoritarians.

I'm skeptical it's an actual takeover per se, and not the older generation being completely blindsided by the force with which the younger generation(s) release their demands. They probably just don't know how to deal with it, and so are giving too much deference to them because doing otherwise risks the online twitter mob.

Is legacy media really leaking talent and cash like I hear so often (honestly asking, haven't seen the data)? If that's true, and social media and technology have neutered their position atop of opinion-forming institutions, that is going to build some very bad incentives in these legacy media companies as far as journalistic integrity goes.

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#22
I want to hijack this thread to lend further credence to my conspiracy theory about an ongoing nation-state attempt to create nameclashes for maximum disruption in the U.S.:

The author quotes a NYT articles which quotes the author's piece on "Radicalizing the Romanceless." In it, the author writes this:

> And I made the horrible mistake of asking this question out loud, and that was how I learned about social justice.

Notice it's not "social justice warrior" or "SJW", the derisive terms for someone who speaks the lingo of widely-known, widely-respected collective grass-roots movements from history (or the present) for mere self-serving purposes: superficial fashion, personal advancement, petty vindictiveness, etc. No reasonable adult would read "SJW" and accidentally think the writer is talking about, say, Harriet Tubman.

Instead, the term used is social justice-- the original term-- as a nickname for the newer derisive term. (The author mentions "social justice movements" elsewhere in the same article.) I still won't confuse the author for referring to Harriet Tubman. But what about the Civil Rights movement from the 60s? The 1984 Nicaraguan Election? BLM?

Looks like we got ourselves an old-fashioned nameclashin'. Yeehaw!

Given a) social media in its current form has a greater incentive for derisive terms like SJW than its non-derisive referent, b) the derisive term includes the referent so that the referent can become a shorthand for the derision, and c) Americans have a shit understanding of history, the derision slowly but surely overtakes public consciousness of the original meaning on social media.

All that's needed is for a nation-state to find some nameclashin' efforts where the original term is included in the burgeoning derisive term... a little boost here and there... and voila, SJW will become a kind of "Bulverizing force" against the very idea of the efficacy of social movements from history. :)

What's so ironic here is that the author is both unwittingly nameclashin' while at the same time complaining about another case of nameclashin': "nice guy." Let's go through the steps:

1. Original term "nice guy" to mean "actually decent fellow who acts in good faith" for a given generation of speakers.

2. New term "nice guy" to mean a bad faith actor who claims by fiat they are decent as a means to manipulate others. Used by a newer generation of speakers.

3. boost of definition 2 by some entity/entities

4. Unnecessary disruption among these two generations who would otherwise understand each other just fine.

Nameclashin', baby!

Look for it at any participating locations where upvotes can be bought.

Edit: clarification

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#23
The Charles Murray thing seems to be about his use of the word "sophisticated"... that was probably a bad choice.

To dive deeper look at the criticisms of Murray and draw your on conclusion about the degree of sophistication of his assumptions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Criticism_of_as...

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#24

My respect for the NY Times is out the window at this point.

The last few years they have been overly focused on their agenda and many times haven't even made a visible effort to investigate fairly. NYT employees have been fired for disagreeing with the prevailing opinion in the newsroom.

> ...they have been overly focused on their agenda...

Can you elaborate on this? What is their agenda?

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#25

You can play a fun game with this snippet from the NYT article. You can replace the word "Rationalists" with the name of any group at all and the resulting statement seems vaguely true due to the imprecise nature of the language. > Many Rationalists embraced “effective altruism,” an effort to remake charity by calculating how many people would benefit from a given donation. Some embraced the online writings of “neore…

you can play any number of "fun games" to validate whatever pre-conceived notion you have about NYT

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#27
As someone else said (and I agree):

This gets at part of what I find irritating about the self-described Rationalist community: they talk about "free speech" when what they really want is unrestricted, consequence-less speech that allows them to guiltlessly harm certain people in the name of innovation.

Source: https://twitter.com/espiers/status/1360793868816556033

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#28

Reading the NYT piece was mortifying.[1] They were my primary source of all things news and then published this strange hit that's just... off base. They were the real news that was called fake news in a ridiculous/laughable sort of way. But it just doesn't jive. How can a reliable news source write an article like that? Why throw your reputation down the toilet for what seems like a grudge? [1] https://www.nytimes.c…

The Times has a long history. There was the WMD scandal where Judith Miller credulously wrote about the Bush administration’s lies on Iraq.

Then in the 2016 election the NYT had a front page spread implying major scandal regarding Clinton’s emails. This probably cost Clinton the election.

https://www.vox.com/2017/12/7/16747712/study-media-2016-elec...

I could come up with more examples but the times have a very clear slant, much more marked than say the washington post. The NYT produces good reporting too but they can produce some real garbage.

I could have sworn the times wrote a really bad article about islam in London but can’t find it.

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#29

I want to hijack this thread to lend further credence to my conspiracy theory about an ongoing nation-state attempt to create nameclashes for maximum disruption in the U.S.: The author quotes a NYT articles which quotes the author's piece on "Radicalizing the Romanceless." In it, the author writes this: > And I made the horrible mistake of asking this question out loud, and that was how I learned about social justice…

While "nameclashes" are a problem, I don't see any evidence that they have been created or promoted by any nation-state. Actually it seems to me that sjw was rather adopted as a more precise term than leftist, to reduce confusion. To refer to people who mainly talk about race and gender that rather than say raising taxes for the rich.

Re: Statement on New York Times Article

#30
Steven Pinker maybe says it best, in a thread where he links to some notable SSC posts:

A typical essay by Scott Alexander is deeper, better reasoned, better referenced, more original, and wittier than 99% of the opinion pieces in MSM. It's sad that the NYT can see him only through the lens of their standard political & cultural obsessions.

Perhaps Alexander's ultimate virtue is epistemic humility: His pieces are long, sometimes inconclusive, and accompanied by diverse commentary because he's committed to his own fallibility and lack of omniscience. We should all live by such standards.

https://twitter.com/sapinker/status/1360787817459253251

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