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US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

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Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#261

Post by hayst4ck »

refenestrator wrote: post #222
f430 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the CCP is innocent why not prove it to the world by sharing their data? Why hide things?

Because there's no upside and guaranteed downside. People are accusing them of building the virus in a lab with literally zero evidence. Give the US a bunch of raw data to spin and it just makes that easier.

> People are accusing them of building the virus in a lab with literally zero evidence

I don't think there is a lot of evidence for malice, but there is definitely evidence worthy of contemplation:

https://project-evidence.github.io/

Here is a study from 2007: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258702/

> In this study, we investigated the receptor usage of the SL-CoV S by combining a human immunodeficiency virus-based pseudovirus system with cell lines expressing the ACE2 molecules of human, civet, or horseshoe bat.

That is literally building of viruses in a lab.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#263

Post by makomk »

addicted wrote: post #29
renewiltord wrote: post #5

The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…

You mean primary sources like the program that had US scientists embedded in Chinese laboratories that Trump dismantled in 2019? Also, you clearly don’t understand what the WHO does and how critical it has been in the reduction and even eradication of disease spread across the world over decades. Further, the WHO, much like most multilateral organizations is dependent on its member states for strength. When the most…

If I remember rightly, the news articles about those US scientists embedded in Chinese laboratories eventually admitted about half-way in that they wouldn't have access to any more useful information on Covid-19 than the US already had. Which, of course, made the articles kind of pointless except as a way of stoking outrage amongst people who didn't care about little details like that.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#264

Post by hayst4ck »

refenestrator wrote: post #257
hayst4ck wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a very enlightened perspective. Maybe with people like Trump in the world who would definitely capitalize on that type of thing to cast blame there is inherent risk, but at least amongst civilized educated people, its obvious a virus could show up anywhere and disseminating information shows a clear desire to fight the virus as a member of the world, rather than a desire to use it as a political…

Enlightened or not, it's accurate. Trump was actually president and now Biden's administration is raising 'deep concerns'. We knew or should have known the virus was coming for months before it was a problem in the US. It would take an incredibly enlightened politician not to try and scapegoat China for our failures, and they know this. Why gamble on our goodwill amidst all this rhetoric?

If a country lied and kept information from the public and had internal propaganda which convinced a significant portion of the population that the US was in fact responsible, and it was transferred from the US to China, I would be quite concerned as well. The difference is that here our scientists can speak publicly, and in China that is not the case.

China's behavior is concerning.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#265

Post by WaxProlix »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #243
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

The funny thing in this case is there was no reason for the CCP to cover this up. If they had just responded to the outbreak instead of trying to cover it up initially and been a little more open with the international community they would have been lauded for their handling of the situation.

Is that true? It's hard for me to imagine anything China does being 'lauded' in western media, they're very much a media/political boogeyman (not necessarily saying that's unwarranted).

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#267

Post by kmonsen »

WaxProlix wrote: post #265
fiftyfifty wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing in this case is there was no reason for the CCP to cover this up. If they had just responded to the outbreak instead of trying to cover it up initially and been a little more open with the international community they would have been lauded for their handling of the situation.

Is that true? It's hard for me to imagine anything China does being 'lauded' in western media, they're very much a media/political boogeyman (not necessarily saying that's unwarranted).

I kind of find it the opposite? They run concentration camps and acknowledge mass rape but the western media mostly shrugged. I find it hard to find anything the media take seriously these days. We are all so easily distracted, myself included.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#268

Post by throwitaway1235 »

Udik wrote: post #98
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

> Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party Seems this holds true for every government and party.

It was just a little over a decade ago that the United States killed 300,000 + Iraqis, but it's in vouge to portray China and Russia as the worlds ultimate boogeyman.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#269

Post by sn41 »

Fricken wrote: post #208

What's weird is that a number of WHO investigation team members a week ago said China was very transparent, cooperative and helpful. Some have tweeted against the NYT who spun the WHO team's accounts into anti-China propaganda. https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterDaszak/status/13605511085659... https://mobile.twitter.com/TheaKFischer/status/1360590441817...

I don't know what is true and what is not, and am not criticizing any country. But it would be unwise for international missions to criticize any host country when its members are vulnerable - though not exactly the same, similar stances are taken by Red Cross.

https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/article/othe...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#270

Post by alacombe »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #106
throwawaysea wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not necessarily lab created but it could have been leaked from a lab (which studies coronaviruses and bats) even if it wasn’t artificial. It matters because it lays more blame on China and creates the political expediency needed for sanctions. I do agree that there should be consequences for the Chinese government regardless of whether the virus was a leak or not (or artificial or not), and that it isn’t depende…

How does that help the World fight the pandemic? All that does is provide a reason for political actions, that people already want to take, to stem Chinese power and maintain USA imperialism. If a country choose not to shut its airports doesn't mean your country has to accept incoming flights. If a country thinks people are coming in with a pandemic disease and don't shut the entry points (ports/airports) that's on t…

China would be pressured internationally to "foot the bill" for their fuck up...
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